This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

[taz]

can anyone help me get pinworm eggs

[cheerleader]

Don't think you want pinworms, taz. As I learned, they're self-infecting and really gross. Not meant for MS therapy.
Check out this thread-

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-5155-pinworm.html

Here's a link to the current helminth study at the University of Wisconsin.

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00645749

best,
pinworm-free AC

[Lyon]

Thanks AC, you're a Lady and a scholar!!

(I'm in the middle of doing income taxes!! I'm late, I'm late, for a very important date )
Bob

[taz]

can anyone help me get pinworm eggs

thankyou cheerleader but i still need to aquire pinworms

[jimmylegs]

i would imagine you could send a message to the contact author for some of the research that's been done on pinworm infection.
i also hear public washrooms are a good place if you skip washing your hands but the jury appears to be out regarding the most appropriate stall (a pretty funny read):
http://education.guardian.co.uk/egweekly/story/0,,1969414,00.html

[cheerleader]

Ha! Good one, JL!
Well, my family got our pinworms from my kid not washing his hands after, uh, you know. I suppose a preschool lunchroom might be a good place to start. Ask to share a cookie or two

But seriously, you do NOT want pinworms, Taz. The helminth you want is a WHIPWORM. These guys are 2' long and live in your gut. Pinworms are as big as a staple, and like to exit at night to lay eggs around your, uh, derriere.

Once again, pinworm=bad, whipworm=good. Just ask Bob!

http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/209/ ... 03665.html

intestinally yours,
AC

[Lyon]

taz, you've never mentioned exactly WHY you want the pinworm eggs, but I have to assume you want to self infect in the hopes that it will offer some kind of improvement against allergy, asthma or some autoimmune disease.

I've been trying and I've yet to find evidence that pinworms offer the immune modulating effect. To the contrary it seems that pinworms might be unique among the human helminth parasites in that they don't seem to ever interact with the human immune system.

It's not common knowledge and maybe is a little hard to understand that, in terms of the immune system, the interior of the intestinal tract is considered "external"....as if you were turned inside out and the intestinal walls were your skin.

If something penetrates the intestinal walls, or your skin, to the necessary depth, it then becomes "internal", but everything in your intestinal tract doesn't necessarily interact with the immune system because until it penetrates the intestinal wall to a certain depth and stays there for a certain amount of time, it's not the concern of the immune system.

What I haven't been able to find is ANY evidence that at ANY point the pinworm interacts with the human immune system as you would want, in fact all the evidence I can find shows that the pinworm doesn't interact with the immune system and therefore is nothing more than an annoying and highly contagious freeloader which offers you nothing.

Although this article http://www.msu.edu/~lyonro/human%20parasitology.pdf was written by people who had likely never pondered whether the loss of helminth parasites begat autoimmune/inflammatory diseases, it provides it's own evidence as to the completeness of man's evolutionary relationship with helminths, how adaptable helminths have proven to be through history reasons why the "MS geographic gradient" could also be seen as the mirror image of the "helminth geographic gradient", which led MS researchers of the past to believe it was owed to "genetic predisposition".

Bob

[taz]

THANKYOU EVERYONE
my reason for wanting worms is that i had them a long time before my immune related problems began and since thier removal there has been a gradual decline in my health to point where anything i can do is preferable to doing nothing
i know it is an embarasment to some but i can not go on wasting my life
in my condition without at least trying

[Lyon]

Thanks for the response taz. That's an interesting consideration.

Regarding the swine whipworm which they are selling from Germany and Thailand....they were having trouble getting them into the US through the FDA last I knew....and that's a pretty expensive way to go. There is a guy in the US who is/was selling hookworms, which won't infect those close to you or reinfect yourself, but they do some tissue migration and involve a coughing stage so that they can migrate from your lungs to intestines.

Evidently the human whipworm still exists in the US in parts of Appalachia and some Indian Reservations. What's good about that (Trichuris trichiura) is that it doesn't migrate through tissue, under "developed" conditions it won't over infect, doesn't self infect/infect others and lives up to 20 years so that keeping a consistent level wouldn't be such a big issue.

If you're really intent on pinworm, I think digging around on county and educational websites in your area might show school systems that are having problems with them.

Bob

[jimmylegs]

finally, the discussion of parasites triggered this random memory of lyrics from a band self-described as indie/alternative/comedy.

as i review, this song has everything, inflammation, lyme, parasites, and love... plenty of artistic license but perhaps some will enjoy

When you were a little girl you were stung by a wasp
And the skin on your arm puffed up and went red
Yet you so loved that wasp and all of his brothers that you
Brought the whole damn angry hive into your
Right into your bed

As a child you were riddled with ringworm
So your father cut them out of your skin
Then you felt so alone and remorseful
You tracked each little worm down and put them back in

Have you ever tried to neck with an earwig
Oh, your body is a home to your friends
You've a tick for each nipple and a leech for each finger
And a parasitic love that never ends

Do you have any love left for me
I'm small, but that's a start
Eat me up with your love
Burrow your way to my heart
Do you have any love left for me
I'm small, that's a start
Eat me up with your love, please
Burrow your way to my heart

listenable: http://www.garageband.com/mp3player?|pe1|S8LTM0LdsaSkaVCy

[Lyon]

Ah! Another garageband.com fan! Thanks Jimmy, I wasn't familiar with that song.
Bob

[jimmylegs]

heehee! no worries

[taz]

thankyou Bob
i have cosidered pig worm but it is only available from Thailand thier web site is very vague and that country has a reputation of having fifty percent
fake drugs in all aspects.
i nearly aquired hook worm from a university trial but thier remit changed
to only two diseases which i have not been diagnosed.
i will persevere

[Nenu]

Interesting discussion. I had a problem years ago with pinworm, and had to drink some orange tasting stuff to deal with it. My understanding is that it killed the pinworm population in my body? Or at least controlled the suckers.

I didn't personally note any problems following this, but it's not to be discredited in the least. I'd imagine for some, changing this balance in the body would cause other issues to crop up.

[Lyon]

I didn't personally note any problems following this, but it's not to be discredited in the least.

Hi Nenu,
Although helminth parasites (parasitic worms) can cause problems, even immune related problems, this theory which is closely related to the hygiene hypothesis is exactly the opposite of what it seems.

There are a LOT of reasons I'm convinced that the loss of evolutionary normal conditions is the cause of the autoimmune/inflammatory diseases but as a matter of fact I think one of the interesting evidences is the very fact that it involves a converse situation. Since the beginning researchers have been looking for, and not having any luck, trying to label the "something" in the environment which changed to drastically increase disease incidence. Things begin making sense of the MS incidence situation when you realize that it's the "loss" of something which is responsible.

Situations in which the compilation of information had led great researchers to the conviction that the increased incidence of MS is due to an infection, despite the lack of evidence of the existence of an infection make sense when you consider that the loss of an evolution long infection presents exactly the same picture to us that the introduction of a previously non existent infection.....except that there can be no doubt that the evolutionary long infection did exist, doesn't exist now and that the helminth survival had depended on a constant interaction with the human immune system.

To put it in a nutshell, I'm convinced that the incidence of the autoimmune diseases is owed to the human deficiency of the immune altering chemicals the helminths had been putting into the human system though out our evolution and that our changing living conditions due to the process of becoming "developed" eliminated those helminths in our populations and the loss of the immune altering chemicals our systems had become dependent on caused the autoimmune/inflammatory diseases.

The facts are:

Humans evolved with helminth parasites being a constant and unavoidable factor.

In order to survive the immune system the helminths evolved the ability to excrete/secrete chemicals which cause our immune system to allow their survival.

The most important aspect of the process of a population becoming "developed" is the availability and increasing use of running water, flush toilets and efforts towards personal cleanliness which, for the first time in human history was a factor which didn't allow the completion of the helminth life cycle and effectively eliminated those helminths in entire populations.

Speculation based on the above FACTS:

Considering the loss of the human evolution long human relationship and consequent loss of the immune altering chemicals they had been pumping into us, what problems would we sensibly expect to find in subsequent generations of humans? Immune problems which hadn't previously existed?

Isn't that exactly the situation we're seeing?

taz, my personal interest is the cause of autoimmune disease and not specifically the cure so I don't "like" the idea of people purposely infecting themselves. I don't have much more regard for hookworm than pinworm, but if you are intent on this, hookworm would probably be a better option than pinworm http://autoimmunetherapies.com/index.html

Read the guy's personal story too....makes me shudder! http://www.asthmahookworm.com/

Bob