Constipation as a Symptom of Multiple Sclerosis

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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:58 am

hi robbie, there's *supposed* to be some truth to that thinking, but we never check with bloodwork whether our personal ideas of healthy eating are resulting in the optimal situations in our body.

even something as simple as pop, artificial sweetener, or coffee can strip out nutrients, especially in combination with stress.

you would think all of us here should be pretty conscious of dietary issues and our health, and yet magnesium is making a big difference for some.

in fact magnesium, even with its absorption problems, is way out in front in terms of anecdotal reports back to me from a bunch of healthy eaters, ms patients and otherwise, on its effects from constipation to spasticity to insomnia to motility to twitching to pain, it just goes on and on and on. some take it for one thing and find it's helping in other ways they didn't anticipate. so good dietary habits are clearly not cutting it for this nutrient in particular.

strangely, magnesium is not a good thing to test for in blood. your bloodwork will always look pretty good as regards mg, but it's the tissues and their functions that suffer when stores are down.

nutrition indicators you could look for in some baseline bloodwork might include:

D:
-vitamin d3 (specifically, 25-hydroxycholecalciferol - NOT 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol)
aim for 100 nmol/L +
they'll tell you something in the 70s is fine, don't buy in


B-complex:
-b12 (serum cobalamin)
keep it upwards of 500 for optimal neurol function. current indicators of deficiency are hematologic not neurologic. this is another case where many times for MS patients "normal"=BAD - not to mention alzheimer's patients, psychiatric patients, etc etc etc
-RBC folate (b9 that is; you just run that too when you run a cobalamin test)
-b1 (thiamine)
-b2 (riboflavin)
-b3 (niacin)
-b5 (pantothenic acid)
-b6 (pyridoxine)

uric acid
another normal=bad scenario. normal range: 140-340. ms average: 194. healthy controls: 290. take your pick!

zinc (and copper)
again, normal=bad. reference range 11.5 - 18.5
Code: Select all
             Males(n=21)       
             MS          Ctrls   
Zn(µmol/l)   13.0±1.9    14.8±1.6
Cu(µmol/l)   14.7±3.7    15.3±1.6

not a big sample size, but these are on average lower in zinc (and copper) than controls. only some of these male ms patients would actually get a "deficient" result for zinc. it was basically the same for trend for girls. the lowest zinc value in a girl in that study was 10. mine came back 8.6 originally, so i would have been a serious bottom-end outlier in this study!

that is probably more than enough testing to start off with. perhaps just pick one to begin, so you can suss out the vibe with your doc and the test ordering thing?

i probably wouldn't bother testing magnesium, except by taking some to see what it did, if anything. i don't know what the best test for magnesium status is, but if you have to assess levels in tissue, well that sounds a bit less pleasant than getting some blood drawn!!
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Postby robbie » Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:44 pm

when your doctor does the standard blood work, say at a physical does it include any of these tests that you mentioned or do you have to ask specifically for them.?
Had ms for over 19 years now.
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Postby msmything » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:19 pm

Sorry Ms. Legs!
I have short hair, and dress in what you might call a comfortable way, and have had many a store clerk greet me with 'can I help you sir'.
Fortunately some of my self esteem is intact.
My usual reply is you'll have to discount my purchase now because you've ruined my day!!!
I was never much of a Seinfeld watcher.
I used to work in NYC, so Seinfeld was more of a reality TV show that a sit-com.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:40 pm

hi robbie, oh those ones i listed would definitely be an ask for specifically set, i would think.
i've never heard of my docs ordering any nutritional testing that i wasn't pushing for. EXCEPT the one standard b12 test that they order when they're doing the differential on MS. which is effed up because they are using the wrong indicators to assess whether you're fine or not when it comes to neurological function and b12.
if you test the waters and aren't getting any cooperation, we can work out a set of good abstracts to take in to the doc. hopefully if you stick a stack of peer-reviewed well-designed science under their nose, they will cave and order your investigative work.
let me know how it pans out at your next appt k? i'd say i'm rootin for ya but i don't know how that will fly with the australian contingent on here :S LOL
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:45 pm

LOL msmt!! awwww well you have a far more legit excuse for mistaking me, i mean it does say jimmy, and my avatar had better not be a female anything lol
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Postby elaine » Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:52 pm

hi cure
did you buy your homozone in a health shop or do you have to order it on line?
thanks Elaine
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:04 pm

elaine if it costs more than a plain old bottle of magnesium oxide tablets, i wouldn't go for homozone - there seems to be a bit of oxygen hype around it which you'd possibly be paying extra for... i haven't looked into this at all so i can't say what benefit oxygen may or may not have. but if you're just looking for relief from constipation, eat a lot of peaches, and just take plain old cheap old magnesium oxide from the local pharmacy.
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Postby elaine » Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:03 pm

thanks for your response jimmylegs,yes it is for contapation i have a bottle of magnesium amino acid chelated 500mg is this ok to take and how much would i nedd to have?
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:24 am

elaine wrote:did you buy your homozone in a health shop or do you have to order it on line?
Elaine, I got mine as an adjunct to when I tried the "Vonner" treatment, so I guess I bought it on-line.

I would really recommend this to anyone who finds they are irregular, constipated or have pain due to this issue. This stuff REALLY works in that it drives the movement AND loosens/softens the stool. BUT I would not be recommending anyone take this every day, for many reasons.
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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:37 am

jimmylegs wrote:... there seems to be a bit of oxygen hype around it which you'd possibly be paying extra for...
Its not just oxygen, its Ozone! :wink:

Yeah, I personally think if you can get a mag-oxide tablet cheaper, go for it. I do feel the "bubbling" in my intestines when you first take it. And if you take small doses daily, that results in abundant "air" from your hiney.

On the side of the Homozone pack, you take your dose followed by a large amount of water, and something acidic like the juice of a lemon or apple cider, to help the process. Although "chalky", its easy to take single large doses, as it comes in a powder that will mix into water.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:42 am

hi elaine, your amino acid chelated magnesium will be one of the best absorbed forms. as far as tablets go. it will not be as likely to relieve constipation as magnesium oxide, but it could do the trick.

if you take two of your 500mgs for a couple days and aren't noticing any cleanout effects, i'd get my hands on some plain old magnesium oxide. with the oxide, say you have pills that are 250mg, or 300mg, just take one the first day, two the second day, etc, until you are up to a dose that has the "desired results" ;)

the chelated form is definitely good to take in the long term, one per day, to help with your muscle function.

hope that helps!
JL
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:31 am

robbie, not-so-random random question: over time, boiling water in the kettle at your house, how often do you find you have to clean out mineral build-up with vinegar-water or some other product?
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Postby robbie » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:41 am

not sure what u mean jimmy
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:11 am

i mean, do you get a white scaly build-up on the inside of your kettle over time?
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:28 am

what i'm getting at is an idea pertaining to why we could mostly be healthy eaters and yet short on these minerals. and i don't mean just MS patients.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_softener
Water softening

A water softener reduces the dissolved calcium, magnesium, and to some degree manganese and ferrous iron ion concentration in hard water.

These "hardness ions" cause three major kinds of undesired effects...
hindering their ability to lather... precipitate—the familiar "bathtub ring"... inhibits the cleaning effect of detergent;
calcium and magnesium carbonates tend to adhere to the surfaces of pipes ... resulting build-up of scale can restrict water flow in pipes. In boilers, the deposits act as an insulation ... reducing the heating efficiency ... components ...overheat;
ions in an electrolyte, ... can also lead to galvanic corrosion...


in our house we used to drink city water, no buildup. these days we get water from our friend's well. i'm sure they must have a softener of some kind, but we're still seeing a far higher mineral content in the water now that it's from a well and not from the city.
so i take it, that if you don't get buildup in your kettle, your water has had the minerals removed. just a thought.
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