Worms for Bob!

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Postby msdragonslayer » Sat Dec 11, 2010 1:34 pm

@ cheerleader
Interesting link! An easier way, I would think, would be to take the chlorine out of our drinking water and go back to drinking water the way God made it. Oh yeah, first we would have to shut down most of the industry or find a better way of dealing with it so that it does not end up polluting our water supply. Maybe forget that one. How about making them grow our fruits and vegetables without all the chemicals they put in them? That's possible! How about we let kids go ahead and get chicken pox and measles and mumps and let their little immune systems work up their own defenses against disease? Everybody in my age group had those diseases and we all lived to tell the tale. I did however come down with MS regardless though I must say it is nowhere near as bad as some of the young folks are getting. I tend to think there is merit in the argument that some parasites are there for a purpose - knowingly eating them is a bit rough though. Like you said, just reading about it could turn one off food permanently. Think I will wait for CCSVI Liberation treatment to get to Canada and at least get rid of the worst of my symptoms that way maybe. It is one h*ll of a dilemma though, isn't it?
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Postby 1hunter » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:17 pm

I met Dr. Flemming, he is a nice guy!
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Postby Lyon » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:25 pm

1hunter wrote:I met Dr. Flemming, he is a nice guy!
You're right. Intelligent, objective and personable.
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Postby mrbarlow » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:22 am

Ms Dragonslayer

Not chlorinating water supplies would simply open us up to a whole host of acute bacterial infections which are often fatal - Typhoid, cholera, e- coli. ALso viruses.

On the other hand a few small parasitic worms are harmless.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:13 am

the water at my work has UV tertiary treatment not chlorine. region-wide organization, many locations, and the water hasn't killed us yet!
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Postby mrbarlow » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:33 am

jimmylegs wrote:the water at my work has UV tertiary treatment not chlorine. region-wide organization, many locations, and the water hasn't killed us yet!


UV is a useful treatment at point of use but provides no residual protection.
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Postby Lyon » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:44 am

mrbarlow wrote:I am going to start Hookworm therapy in early February. I am already making the plans with Autoimmune Therapy's, based now in the UK.
Best of luck to you and please keep us updated.
Bob
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Postby Lyon » Sun Dec 12, 2010 4:51 pm

Not entirely specific to MS, but interesting article on the subject http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jbb/2010/743758.html
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Postby Cece » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:14 pm

Lyon wrote:I probably should have mentioned earlier that I heard from Dr Fleming on August 8th and he said that they were going to be screening MS patients for the HINT (helminth) trial that week, with the intention of treating 5 patients with T suis ova for three months and measure brain MRI changes (= part 1, safety and preliminary immunoassays). Then in 2009 the intention is to check MRI changes in 15 patients during 10 months of T suis ova treatment (= part 2, preliminary efficacy).

Has there been any information on how the trial is going? It's interesting, to say the least.
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Postby Lyon » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:54 pm

Cece wrote: Has there been any information on how the trial is going? It's interesting, to say the least.
Hi Cece, I haven't wanted to seem nosy by out and out asking him but early on he had said that he wouldn't waste the money on phase II if phase 1 didn't seem promising and he did go on to phase II.

I find it interesting that swine whipworm ova seem to be easing symptoms when you consider that the whole idea behind this is that the helminths which shared evolutionary history with humans are masters of the human immune system, as evidenced by the fact that they survive very comfortably in us despite the purpose of the Human immun system which is to kill eliminate foreign bodies.

Swine whipworms aren't masters of our immune system and in fact are noticed and killed by our immune within several weeks time, yet if the symptom improvements prove real those swine whipworms are doing something right.
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Postby mrbarlow » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:26 pm

Lyon wrote:
Cece wrote: Has there been any information on how the trial is going? It's interesting, to say the least.
Hi Cece, I haven't wanted to seem nosy by out and out asking him but early on he had said that he wouldn't waste the money on phase II if phase 1 didn't seem promising and he did go on to phase II.

I find it interesting that swine whipworm ova seem to be easing symptoms when you consider that the whole idea behind this is that the helminths which shared evolutionary history with humans are masters of the human immune system, as evidenced by the fact that they survive very comfortably in us despite the purpose of the Human immun system which is to kill eliminate foreign bodies.

Swine whipworms aren't masters of our immune system and in fact are noticed and killed by our immune within several weeks time, yet if the symptom improvements prove real those swine whipworms are doing something right.


Autoimmune therapy's garauntee whipworm infection for 18 months. Hookworm for 3 years
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Postby Lyon » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:43 pm

mrbarlow wrote: Autoimmune therapy's garauntee whipworm infection for 18 months. Hookworm for 3 years
Right, both types of hookworms evolved with humans and the whipworms they are selling are actually Trichuris trichiura, the human whipworm rather than the swine whipworm, Trichuris suis, which the FDA begrudgingly allows to be used for US clinical trials.

I don't know how anyone could possibly know but it's accepted that hookworms and T trichiura can live 15-20 years in humans-despite the purpose of our immune systems. Definitely masters of the immune system but it remains to be seen what benefits will be found by bringing the immune system back in check in adults with when the immune system has already gotten out of whack enough to cause damage.

edited quote that I'd goofed up.
Last edited by Lyon on Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Motiak » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:54 am

It is crazy how much we still have to learn about the human body. Hopefully all of this research helps us get a better understanding of how all of this stuff works together.
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Postby Cece » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:45 pm

couldn't find much on the current HINT trial other than this:
Dr. John Fleming, a neurology professor at the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health, said his first-round trial of the substance in 2009 showed promising clinical, immunological, and MRI results. Participants reported no significant side effects. http://tinyurl.com/3y4vbxl

As of August 2010, the Phase II study, "Helminth-induced Immunomodulation Therapy (HINT)," was recruiting 20 individuals with RRMS at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and the Marshfield Clinic. Participants will receive a dose of 2,500 ova (tiny eggs) in liquid form every two weeks. After this liquid is ingested, the eggs hatch and grow to the size of an eyelash within the digestive tract, but once in the large intestine, the body's immune system kills the larvae. The primary outcome measure is MS activity, as judged by the number of new gadolinium-enhancing lesions on serial MRI scans. The study is estimated to be completed in March 2011.

http://msassociation.org/publications/s ... .story.asp
Definitely a squeamish factor but it has logical underpinnings. I could see a situation where the effects of CCSVI opens up the blood brain barrier and then depending on how reactive the immune system is, which could historically have been modulated by helminths, you either get inflammation and lesions or you don't.
“We look at it
like using live yeast
cultures in yogurt,”
said Dr. Fleming.
“The idea is to use
helminth eggs as a
probiotic, in other
words, a live agent
that may provide a
health benefit to patients.”

yeah, not really buying the "it's just like yogurt" argument.... :D
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Postby dreddk » Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:08 am

Scientific American
The worms within

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/ ... 2010-12-17
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