prednisone

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby Lyon » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:16 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Advertisement

Postby msmything » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:06 pm

I was diagnosed with MS 4 years ago, I can trace sx back easily 20 years.
If you will allow a rant..if you go to a doc with the somewhat vague sx of ms and you are female, you will leave the office with a prescription for Antidepressants and a tranquilizer.
I lived many years with guilt thinking I was just lazy..
My dx came when my mgr recommended I go to the ER. (iwork in a hospital) A ct scan led to an MRI and dx that day. I had 8 active lesions and many inactive, as well as some large 'black holes'.
I think about the 'what if' if I'd been diagnosed earlier. On one hand, I would have gone on DMD earlier, however I think I might have let the beast color my life, I wouldn't have pushed as hard, done so much.
The amazing wisdom I've come up with is' IT IS WHAT IT IS'. I dig deep every day to function as well as possible.
I can guarantee you that your wife does not let a day pass without thanking God for you
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle..
User avatar
msmything
Family Elder
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Chicagoland

Postby Lyon » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:41 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby msmything » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:58 pm

Thanks Bob, I'm blessed with a Bob as well...I hope he feels blessed too LOL
Be kinder than necessary, for everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle..
User avatar
msmything
Family Elder
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Chicagoland

Postby Lyon » Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:27 pm

.
Last edited by Lyon on Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lyon
Family Elder
 
Posts: 6063
Joined: Wed May 03, 2006 3:00 pm

Postby cheerleader » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:48 pm

Wanted to bump this thread 'cause I have some questions for the elders.
Robbie, I know you found great relief with prednisone. And Cure, I know it's part of your routine.

Jeff got a scrip from his neuro a couple of weeks ago when he had a mini flare w/ numb feet, and he didn't fill it. Wanted to wait it out. His feet came back, but he decided to fill it before taking a big trip cross country this week.

He took 60mg. for 2 days this weekend, and felt terrific...his first days with no pain at all since his dx. He's been feeling great and is now on the taper down to 20mg. He'll be done in a couple of days. He had IV solumedrol at his first flare 2 years ago. The neuro thought it wouldn't work for him, since he'd had symptoms for over a month before starting steroids...yet he had immediate relief from pain and a return of function.

My question is....if prednisone is so successful in relieving his pain, would this mean that inflammation is at the root of his leg pains? His blood tests always show inflammation. Is this unusual for MS patients? I know not everyone gets relief from steroids. Has any research been done on why steroids work for some, and not others? Is there a male/female component to this?
inquiring,
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 4939
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Postby CureOrBust » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:26 am

cheerleader wrote:Wanted to bump this thread 'cause I have some questions for the elders.
Hey, was that an old f@rt crack? :(

cheerleader wrote:He took 60mg. for 2 days this weekend, and felt terrific...his first days with no pain at all since his dx. He's been feeling great and is now on the taper down to 20mg. He'll be done in a couple of days.
I take 75mg/day for 3 days, with NO taper. I found the lower doses were nowhere near as effective, and it was only the high days that made a difference; so cut the taper. I think IV works on the same basis; ie a short HIGH dose. I talked to my docs at the time, and they were both comfortable with up to 7 days at 75mg without a taper; I only do three to be extra safe.

cheerleader wrote:He had IV solumedrol at his first flare 2 years ago. The neuro thought it wouldn't work for him, since he'd had symptoms for over a month before starting steroids...yet he had immediate relief from pain and a return of function.
I have never done IV steroids, so who knows how good it would be for me; I am pretty satisfied that the 75mg/day does about all it can. At the time, I was told 1mg/kg body weight, which would be 70mg, but three tablets of 25mg are just too easy to take. There was a discussion about the dosages on here somewhere, and we found some ludicrously high recommendations for other conditions.

cheerleader wrote:My question is....if prednisone is so successful in relieving his pain, would this mean that inflammation is at the root of his leg pains? His blood tests always show inflammation.
Ahh.. I think you might like this thread (http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-23620.html), it has your pet subject in mind. It was just over 2y ago, before you joined, and it has links to articles that show that steroids shut down the leaky BBB, so as far as I could find, no one has proved conclusively if they work in MS because of the inflammation, the immune-modulation, the shut-down of the BBB (ie the endothelial), or a combination of all three.
User avatar
CureOrBust
Family Elder
 
Posts: 2871
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 3:00 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:00 am

i hypothesize that prednisone does something zinc is supposed to be doing. but when prednisone is doing it, you're not getting the benefit of the zinc being able to do its anti-inflammatory/membrane integrity/immune modulation thing, or its other important functions, possibly resulting in the retarded growth of prednisone treated youngsters, a well known zinc deficiency problem.
interesting aside: when zinc is depleted, uric acid drops.

i can't get the full text for this next abstract - it's too old i can only get back to 1993. i would have liked to read this one in detail!

J Am Diet Assoc. 1984 Feb;84(2):157-63.
Zinc status of asthmatic, prednisone-treated asthmatic, and non-asthmatic children.
Goldey DH, Mansmann HC Jr, Rasmussen AI.

To assess interrelationships between asthma, corticosteroid therapy, growth, and zinc status in children, measurements of height, zinc and copper in serum and hair, taste acuity, and dietary intakes of energy, protein, zinc,and copper were analyzed for 29 asthmatic, 11 prednisone-treated asthmatic, and 21 non-asthmatic subjects, 6 to 20 years old. Reduced height attainment was significant only for the prednisone-treated asthmatic group and was not correlated with clinical or dietary indexes of zinc status. Dietary intake data were similar for all three groups; in comparison with the RDAs, daily intakes were adequate for both energy and zinc (80% to 90%), high for protein (185% to 225%), and low for copper (35% to 60%). Results confirmed earlier reports of growth retardation in corticosteroid-treated asthmatics; significant indications that reduced food intake or impaired zinc status played a major part were not evident.

(of course i am curious to see the zinc levels they're talking about)

the following is the number one google result searching prednisone zinc it's an excerpt from a site called Natural News and the items below are referenced at http://www.naturalnews.com/DrugWatch_Prednisone.html

• calcium and vitamin D is strongly encouraged. Inform your pharmacist or physician if you have osteoporosis.1

• Prednisone may compromise the immune system and deplete several important nutrients. Supplementation with vitamin C , selenium, magnesium, potassium, vitamin B6 and zinc is considered beneficial with long term use of Prednisone.2

• Ask your doctor about restricting your salt intake or eating potassium-rich foods. With prolonged use of this medication, a high protein diet may be helpful.3
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
User avatar
jimmylegs
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 9239
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Postby robbie » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:09 am

just take some zinc jeff
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby cheerleader » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:06 am

First off, when I call for the "Elders"...surely you must know I mean in terms of MS age and knowledge..cause at 47, I think I could be Momma to most of you :)

THANK you for the BBB thread and interesting questions, Cure. I didn't realize that corticosteroids could seal it up so quickly. Make so much sense with my pet theory. That's what I've been trying to do with the whole endothelial program, but the prednisone got in there in a couple of days. Obviously, it's not a long term answer.

Jimmy- when Jeff gets back I'm going to up his zinc/calcium/mag and vit. D intake. He's back east with his regular vitamin packs, but I can see how the steroids would deplete the zinc levels. Thanks for that.

I've done some reading on the Lassman patterns of lesions found in MS patients. Dr. Lassman breaks MS down into four subtypes based on how the lesions look at autopsy and how patients respond to a variety of treatments. Some types respond to steroids, some don't, and only respond to blood transfusions. (ex.Pattern IV lesions are found in PPMS, and have extensive loss of oliogodendricytes w/ no remylelination but respond to steroids) Has anyone else looked into this? Of course, he noted that the lesions formed around a blood vessel were the ones that best responded to steroids. Pattern III were the ones not formed around vessels. I don't have a specific study to cite, since most of the reading I did was in google books. Might make an interesting thread if I can make up a list of each pattern.

Hey Rob...are you taking some zinc? Make sure you get some vit D, too. It's looking mighty cold and frosty off out in your gorgeous backyard!
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 4939
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Postby robbie » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:17 am

...are you taking some zinc?

No, this is so much bigger than zinc or vitamins or ldn or crabs or whatever. It is hard to talk about stuff when ms are on so many different levels. When two people are a 7 or 8 they have different answers and different thoughts than people at 1 or 2 or 3.
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

Postby cheerleader » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:37 am

I'm sorry Rob...I didn't mean to sound like it would fix anything...just to keep you from getting a cold or flu. I know you're hurting, and didn't mean to make light of it. Just really appreciate your perspective..and you.
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 4939
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

Postby robbie » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:58 am

I sound really negative on my posts, I am sorry for that. Prednisone is the only thing I’ve found that gives me some relief.
Had ms for over 19 years now.
User avatar
robbie
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1148
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada

another quest for 'the elders'

Postby msmything » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:38 am

I have been steroid dependent for many years, and I have started to wean in the past few mos. It's misery 'cause you know if you just take an extra 10mgs or so your pain is gone.
My question is...is there blood work that can detect when your adrenal glands start to kick in making their own corticosteroid? The wean process is slow and long. it's supposed to take 6 mos to get down the last 4 mgs.

How do you tell if your bady is responding, or if you're going to fast.

I'm doing an every other day dosing now to kick start the process.
User avatar
msmything
Family Elder
 
Posts: 282
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: Chicagoland

Re: another quest for 'the elders'

Postby cheerleader » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:10 am

msmything wrote:My question is...is there blood work that can detect when your adrenal glands start to kick in making their own corticosteroid? The wean process is slow and long. it's supposed to take 6 mos to get down the last 4 mgs.

How do you tell if your bady is responding, or if you're going to fast.


Today's a learning day for me. I didn't know corticosteroids were made by the adrenal gland naturally. (a big duh)

There is a rare disease called Addison's where the adrenals do not function and the body doesn't make enough corticosteroid. Blood tests are available to check steroid levels...maybe checking serum levels would let you know if your adrenals were kicking back in, Ms?

Lack of corticosteroids in the blood may cause the pituitary gland to produce more corticotropin hormones to stimulate the adrenal glands. Since corticotrophin affects melanin production, excess levels of corticotropins may cause dark pigmentation of the skin and lining of the mouth.


Melanin... pigmentation, vitamin D, zinc...I'm going in circles now. Step away from computer...someone else find out how to supplement adrenal health.
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
User avatar
cheerleader
Family Elder
 
Posts: 4939
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:00 pm
Location: southern California

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users