Coenzyme Q10 - Idebenone

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Coenzyme Q10 - Idebenone

Postby bruintje » Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:30 pm

Has anybody experience with Idebenone - or Mnesis (Takeda Chemicals) or whatever commercial name - ?
It looks promising, sort of better chemical variant of CoQ10 - with so called properties to protect the brain's myelin sheath.
I am a chemist, and both molecules look very similar in their anti-oxydant properties. Unfortunately I do not know anything about how slightly different chains in a molecule could affect processes in the body.

http://www.antiaging-systems.com/a2z/idebenone.htm

http://internaf.org/ataxia/Idebenone_desc.html

http://www.smart-drugs.com/article-Jame ... benone.htm

Or just talk from companies trying to sell an expensive drug/food supplement? Idebenone is hard to get; CoQ10 not.

My partner has primary progressive ms, and he gets no medication at all, but he is better by taking 3 x 200 mg daily CoQ10 (our own initiative). By better I mean coördination and speech. Sure we can not say there is a cause/effect relation between taking CoQ10 and being better, because if there is one thing certain about ms is that it is unpredictable.
But, then I read that idebenone is superior to CoQ10.

Any response (positive or negative) would be very welcome. Thanks in advance.
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Postby OddDuck » Sat Nov 20, 2004 2:10 pm

Hi, there!

Well, I suppose everybody figured I'd jump in.

In a nutshell, after some research, personally, my opinion is that the online claims of Idebenone appear to be much exaggerated.

Apparently, there are two compositions of idebenone - oxidized and reduced idebenone. From what I can ascertain from a cursory review, the oxidized form does little to nothing beneficial.

The reduced idebenone does show some affect on the hypocampus part of the brain (which correlates with long term memory), but clinical tests for use of it in Alzheimers, from what I can tell, showed no benefit.

As far as any effect on myelin? I didn't find a thing that showed any correlation with that.

As a matter of fact, there were a couple of research studies that shed a little "doubt" on the long-term safety of idebenone, precisely due to its strength.

Exp Biol Med (Maywood). 2003 May;228(5):506-13. Related Articles, Links


Mitochondrial production of oxygen radical species and the role of Coenzyme Q as an antioxidant.

Genova ML, Pich MM, Biondi A, Bernacchia A, Falasca A, Bovina C, Formiggini G, Parenti Castelli G, Lenaz G.

Dipartimento di Biochimica "G Moruzzi", University of Bologna, 40126 Bologna, Italy.

The mitochondrial respiratory chain is a powerful source of reactive oxygen species (ROS), which is considered as the pathogenic agent of many diseases and of aging. We have investigated the role of complex I in superoxide radical production and found by the combined use of specific inhibitors of complex I that the one-electron donor to oxygen in the complex is a redox center located prior to the sites where three different types of Coenzyme Q (CoQ) competitors bind, to be identified with an Fe-S cluster, most probably N2, or possibly an ubisemiquinone intermediate insensitive to all the above inhibitors. Short-chain Coenzyme Q analogs enhance superoxide formation, presumably by mediating electron transfer from N2 to oxygen. The clinically used CoQ analog, idebenone, is particularly effective, raising doubts on its safety as a drug. Cells counteract oxidative stress by antioxidants. CoQ is the only lipophilic antioxidant to be biosynthesized. Exogenous CoQ, however, protects cells from oxidative stress by conversion into its reduced antioxidant form by cellular reductases. The plasma membrane oxidoreductase and DT-diaphorase are two such systems, likewise, they are overexpressed under oxidative stress conditions.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 12709577 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Apparently, regular CoQ10 is synthesized differently, also. To tell you my opinion, (which is STRICTLY my opinion and nothing else), I'd personally just stick with CoQ10 myself. OVERALL, it appears to provide the same and even perhaps better benefits, with less risk. They both assist with the mitochondrial respiratory chain (biological energy), which is a good thing in general, but is it specific for MS treatment? I'd say no, but I believe it probably helps some (as you mentioned that you have noticed).

Ok...that's my two cents. For what it's worth.

(Oh....and I take CoQ10, also.)

I hope others will weigh in here, also, though!

Best to you!

Deb

EDIT: You know, since it appears this is basically an anti-oxidant agent anyway, and there is a little "controversy" about it, perhaps you might consider adding additional different types of anti-oxidants along with CoQ10 to his regimen? Sarah!! Where are you? Sarah's good at this stuff.

SECOND EDIT: Maybe Felly might consider tossing in his/her thoughts???
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Postby LindaR » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:57 am

Regarding CoQ10, how much do you take, what brand do you use and where to you get it? I am very interested in trying this but don't know where to start. Thanks
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Coenzyme Q10 - Idebenone

Postby bruintje » Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:32 am

My partner uses 3 x 200 mg daily - which is about the minimum dose.

I order it at www.vitacost.com

They sell the "trans" form, which is better adsorbed by the body than the "cis" form. My patner uses the 200 mg softgels (item number NSI 30103).

http://www.vitacost.com/Store/Products/ ... zyme%20Q10

Why the softgels? Because CoQ10 in not soluble in water - so a little oil helps enhanced absorption - up to 3 times. The softgels contain rice bran oil, and also beta carotene and Vit E.



Good luck!
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Postby OddDuck » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:10 am

Linda,

And if you don't want to order over the internet, you can just purchase it from just about any drugstore (here in the U.S.) I get mine from Walgreen's.

Deb
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Postby LindaR » Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:41 am

Thank you for the replies. :D
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Re: Coenzyme Q10 - Idebenone

Postby Stillhaha » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:53 am

In my pre-diagnosis days in Chicago I walked with a crutch cane. Someone approached me in an empty restaurant and we chatted. He mentioned that his aunt uses it to relieve her Bells Palsy and suggested that I look into Idebenone to address my spasticity.

I bought mine through ourkidsasd.com and it might have helped me for a while, but I could not tell for sure. The NIH is studying 750 mg 3 times a day, I read once on clinicaltrials.gov. 300 mg a day was in my price range back when I took it.

Results say a lot, but I doubt that I had many with it.
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Re: Coenzyme Q10 - Idebenone

Postby Scott1 » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:43 am

I'm not quite sure what your conclusion means but Q10 is important because it can provide support when glyceraldehyde 3 phosphate fails. On its own I doubt it will help much and I would dose differently than the NIH study. I set out my thought here - regimens-f22/topic24019.html .

Sorry it's a bit "wordy" but maybe it might help.

Regards
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