MRI predicts disease course

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MRI predicts disease course

Postby Frank » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:43 am

Treatment: Gilenya since 01/2011, CCSVI both IJV ballooned 09/2010, Tysabri stopped after 24 Infusions and positive JCV antibody test, after LDN, ABX Wheldon Regime for 1 year.
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:33 am

If excessive iron in gray matter contributes to damage


Does anyone understand this?
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:00 am

Terry wrote:
If excessive iron in gray matter contributes to damage


Does anyone understand this?


Sadly, yes. More cerebral endothelial dysfunction. Blood leaking in the brain. This is from 1982....

"Autopsy samples from cerebral areas of five brains from patients with multiple sclerosis (MS) and from six control brains were stained with Perls acid ferrocyanide to detect nonheme iron present as hemosiderin. Positive iron reactions were observed only in MS sections surrounding demyelinated plaques. Myelinated white matter near the lesion contained numerous iron-laden ovoid bodied and axons that stained positively for iron. Positive reactions were also found within blood vessels of gray matter near the lesion. A possible source of the iron was extravasated blood."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6896630

I'm starting to get pissed that this isn't a larger area of research....

AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:11 am

Sorry to double post, but this is from 2003...This knowledge of grey matter and iron deposits detectable by MRI has been around for a while...

"Bakshi's team put 41 multiple sclerosis patients through a walking test. They also gave tests of learning, speed of information processing, and memory to 28 MS patients.

The more unnatural darkness the brain scans saw in a patient's gray matter, the worse the patient's MS symptoms. It was the only factor studied that independently predicted impaired walking and thinking.

"We suspect that MS patients have defective blood-brain barriers, the cell layer that prevents potentially toxic substances from entering the brain," Bakshi says. "Excessive iron entering the brain may damage the deep gray matter structures."

link
arghhhh!
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:31 am

OK, guys....forgive me.
I'm out the door today, but wanted to add one more thing to "iron in the brain" rant. EGCG (green tea) acts as a chelation agent in the brain-

"Iron accumulation in specific brain areas and free radical damage to brain cells are considered the major damaging factors responsible for a wide range of neurodegenerative disorders including both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease.

In the brain, epigallocatechin-3-gallate (EGCG) has been shown to act as an iron chelator, binding to and removing iron, thus preventing it from contributing to the production of free radicals. In addition to removing iron, EGCG also increases the activity of two major antioxidant enzymes, superoxide dismutase (SOD) and catalase, further helping to decrease free radical damage."
http://www.greenteahp.tv/alzheimers.html
AC out
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby gibbledygook » Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:10 am

Milk thistle may also be quite good for this.
1: J Clin Gastroenterol. 2008 Sep;42(8):937-44.Links
Silybin treatment is associated with reduction in serum ferritin in patients with chronic hepatitis C.Bares JM, Berger J, Nelson JE, Messner DJ, Schildt S, Standish LJ, Kowdley KV.
Department of Medicine, University of Washington Medical Center, Seattle, WA, USA.

GOALS: The goal of this study was to examine the effect of a standardized silybin and soy phosphatidylcholine complex (IdB 1016) on serum markers of iron status. BACKGROUND: Milk thistle and its components are widely used as an alternative therapy for liver disease because of purported antioxidant, anti-inflammatory, and iron chelating properties. STUDY: Thirty-seven patients with chronic hepatitis C and Batts-Ludwig fibrosis stage II, III, or IV were randomized to 1 of 3 doses of IdB 1016 for 12 weeks. Serum ferritin, serum iron, total iron binding capacity, and transferrin-iron saturation were measured at baseline, during treatment, and 4 weeks thereafter. Wilcoxon signed rank tests were used to compare baseline and posttreatment values. RESULTS: There was a significant decrease in serum ferritin from baseline to end of treatment (mean, 244 vs. 215 mug/L; median, 178 vs. 148 mug/L; P=0.0005); 78% of subjects had a decrease in serum ferritin level. There was no significant change in serum iron or transferrin-iron saturation. Multivariate logistic regression analysis in a model that included dose, age, sex, HFE genotype, history of alcohol use, and elevated baseline ferritin levels demonstrated that stage III or IV fibrosis was independently associated with decreased posttreatment serum ferritin level. CONCLUSIONS: Treatment with IdB 1016 is associated with reduced body iron stores, especially among patients with advanced fibrosis stage.

PMID: 18458640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:30 pm

Cheer,

Iron is the only supp that my holisitc doc has said no to so far. He cited oxidative effects as the reason, but no more explanation. My blood iron levels are pretty low, but I am not anemic.
I did some searching after this, and saw the brain/iron thing a few times, but never figured out how or why it might get in. Thanks for an answer.

Terry
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:01 pm

Yeah, no prob, Terry. Thanks for pointing out the iron issue. It's a good one.
The irony (pun intended) with this is- that people with endothelial dysfunction tend to show iron poor blood or anemia because of the leakage. Then they take iron supplements, which is just making the problem worse. The best bet is to load up on antioxidants thru foods (fruits and veggies) and supplements like EGCG and milk thistle, to bind up the free radicals and keep them from escaping. And like DIM has mentioned, be careful with multivitamins which tend to add iron.
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:08 pm

Yeah, my multi has iron, but since I am the world's worst at remembering, probably no big issue. My next batch won't.
Keep pluggin' Cheer.
Terry
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Tea Party

Postby Cojack » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:05 pm

Cheer,

better not let this info get out; i'm sold...it's grn tea in the mornin, noon and decafed for the nighty night night. you'd think they could have done the trial test on humans for tea..unless of course the equivalent human dosage was 150 pots of tea daily...

Jack
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