Osteopenia

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Osteopenia

Postby ssmme » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:40 pm

I went in for my bi-annual bone density test aka bone scan. Even though for the past 2.5 years I have taken a calcium supplement with vitamin D plus two additional vitamin D tablets (2000 iu's each), plus a multi-vitamin containing both every day I still had an additional 4.5% bone loss since the last scan.

The doctor indicated that my body may not be able to absorb these substances properly. She said a blood test could help find this out but is it really necessary to get the blood test to know my body isn't absorbing it? I know I could take magnesium regularly too of course not at the same time as the vit D but is the problem in my body. Is it worth taking the magnesium religiously for a year just to get another blood test that turns out that I'm still deficient what do I do short of moving to the Carribbean for some real sunshine.

My doctor has prescribed fosamax but if I take it does it have any affect on ms. Is it okay for me to take this?

Geez...At 42 years old I sure feel 80.
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Postby Sharon » Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:11 pm

ssmme -

I understand - I too went through the same thing with osteopenia, extra calcium, taking Actonel and Miacalcin. My bone scans continued to get worse. Then my chiropractor suggested he test me for an allergy to calcium - yes, I tested positive. Allergy to calcium is rare because your body "is calcium". To make a long story as short as possible - the chiropractor did an allergy elimination for the calcium - my body was no longer rejecting the calcium supplement. My last bone density test showed a stabilization in some areas and positive growth in others. This had not been the case for at least fifteen years! I will be getting my yearly bone scan in January - I am keeping my fingers crossed that I am continuing to gain bone density.

Just as an FYI - if you bring this idea up to your primary care or your neuro, they may not listen. They may say "impossible" to be allergic to calcium. Search the Internet for NAET (Natural Allergy Elimination Technique). You may think it sounds kind of strange; I know I did when the chiropractor told me about it. But now I am a believer as I have also recovered from being allergic to citric acid and grass. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

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Postby CureOrBust » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:18 pm

I actually just got back from a DEXA. Prior to my MS diagnosis, i had a one of CIDP, which uses prednisone as the main line of treatment. Needless to say, it affected my bone density. anyway, I was put on Fosamax for a year (one tablet a week). I didn't notice any changes to my condition, but my bone density jumped up quite well (6% I think).

For the past few years, I have been on pretty high Vit D, but very lazy with the calcium, and I have loss some of that ground I won back with Fosamax.
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Postby robbie » Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:32 pm

which uses prednisone as the main line of treatment. Needless to say, it affected my bone density.
how long were u on it cob ?
Had ms for over 19 years now.
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Postby CureOrBust » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:24 am

huh... I was wrongly diagnosed for about 8 to 10 years. Over that time, I had times where originally i was placed on it for 3 months solid, lower dose (I think 25mg/day or something). And whenever I had a relapse I was on it for a week or two (75mg tapering down over the week or two).

I wasn't constantly on it for 8 years, but I did spend a good time on it. a few times in solid month blocks.

I knew near the later few years of its bone density issues, so I also took calcium regularly. When I took a high dose of prednisone while also taking calcium, I was literally urinating with chunks of calcium! I just happened to try DHEA, as I herd it helped with CIDP (my original diagnosis), and found that if I was taking prednisone, calcium and DHEA, I didn't see calcium in my urine. I later found out when I picked up a batch of it in Aus (you need a prescription here for DHEA, I was previously in the UK where you could get it by mail-order, or bring it in from trips to the U.S.), the compounder was involved in a trial for that same effect.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:01 am

an interesting review:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2184830
Effects of magnesium on skeletal metabolism.
Mg depletion adversely affects all phases of skeletal metabolism. In the rat, cessation of bone growth is noted with a decrease in both osteoblast and osteoblast activity, decreased bone formation, osteopenia, increased fragility and development of a form of 'aplastic bone disease'. The epiphyseal growth plate is thinned and the percent ash weight of the growth plate is increased, possibly due to enhanced crystallization of bone salt under conditions of Mg depletion.

if you read the rest of the abstract there is info on humans too ;)

my anecdotal post script is that when i was taking loads of d3 and far less calcium and magnesium, a visit to the dentist had her talking about my bone loss in my jaw. i could feel what she meant, too. i went home and by the next visit i had latched onto magnesium. at my next dental appt, she didn't comment on bone loss. could have still been there, but it felt better in my mouth and i'm optimistic :D
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Postby LR1234 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:23 am

I am in this boat now (Osteopenia)

Any more advice to try and overcome it without clotting my blood too much.
I am about .3 away from osteoporosis.

I am cutting down on the blood thinners (clexane) although the dr does not feel they are contributing too much to the problem. (I disagree)

I already take calcium and Vit D and I will ask about forsamax sp??

I have also purchased some weights for my ankles and wrists just to increase weight bearing...(don't know if they will help)

Any other pieces of advice appreciated....anyone managed to reverse the osteopenia back into normal range or is it impossible? (I am 33)

Thanks
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Postby NHE » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:02 am

LR1234 wrote:I am in this boat now (Osteopenia)

Any more advice to try and overcome it without clotting my blood too much.
I am about .3 away from osteoporosis.

I am cutting down on the blood thinners (clexane) although the dr does not feel they are contributing too much to the problem. (I disagree)

I already take calcium and Vit D and I will ask about forsamax sp??

I have also purchased some weights for my ankles and wrists just to increase weight bearing...(don't know if they will help)

Any other pieces of advice appreciated....anyone managed to reverse the osteopenia back into normal range or is it impossible? (I am 33)


Before starting Fosamax, you may be interested in reading the following book, Overdosed America: The Broken Promise of American Medicine by Dr. John Abramson. One of the chapters discusses the bisphosphonate drugs such as Fosamax. You can read an excerpt of the chapter at his site. http://www.overdosedamerica.com/2007/03 ... er-13.html

It's been a while since I have read the book, but if memory serves correctly, he discusses some success he's had treating osteoporosis with vitamin D, calcium, magnesium, exercise and I also recall by correcting some other hormone issues.

The book also discussed that there are two types of cells important in bone remodeling, osteoclasts which remove damaged and diseased bone tissue and osteoblasts which lay down new bone tissue. The bisphosphonate drugs inhibit osteoclasts and thus prevent the removal of bone tissue. While this might sound like a good thing at first, damaged bone tissue does not get removed.

In addition, it was noted that the bisphosphonate drugs have a 10 year half life in the body. In effect, 30 years after taking the once per week 70 mg dose you would still have 8.75 mg of the drug remaining in your body.

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Postby LR1234 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:57 pm

Thanks for the info NHE.
After I posted I did look into these drugs further and you are right they don't clear old bone properly which in itself leads to problems laying new bone.

I am now on the magnesium, calcium, Vit D and really increasing the weight bearing exercises. Only problem is I do not want to stop taking my blood thinners. I have felt almost normal for the past 7 months since taking them and since lowering the dose to half I have started having mild speech issues (just a fatigue around the jaw that makes it hard for me to speak but un noticable to anyone else)

I am going to speak to my haemotologist next week to see if there are any blood thinners which don't affect the bones. Even coudamin/warfarin effects the bones as it lowers Vit K I believe.
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