Everyone's got it

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Everyone's got it

Postby Lyon » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:41 pm

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Postby chrishasms » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:30 am

You know that is in paper what I have bee almost sure of.

I used to hear all kinds of people I worked with at my school district, (hundreds) reply after I told my symptoms, "I have that too!"

I am more than certain my Mom has MS but I don't talk to her and she is far to perfect to have MS. I would kill to see an MRI of her head.

Good stuff Bob!
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Postby Milo » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:25 am

I bet that almost every adult has at least one lesion in the brain. I doubt that a large percentage of people have M.S. though.
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Postby Lyon » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:18 pm

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Postby Lyon » Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:08 pm

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Postby Artifishual » Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:51 pm

Duuude, after my first MRI my Dr. was explaing about those nasty little white thingys on my melon, they were real small, but he stated "who knows I may have those on my brain too, maybe ms linked maybe not"........HMMMMMMMMMMMMM 8O
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Postby Lyon » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:22 pm

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Postby notasperfectasyou » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:32 pm

Well ......

I just thought I'd do a smell test. Google Scholar: mri brain lesions -ms

There are a lot of hits. So I think you have a point. Here is a good one:

Brain lesions in alcoholics

If having a few ... ok, a lot of beers can give you lesions ....... well?

I say this tongue in cheek somewhat. But, then, you read something like this ....Incidental Brain Lesions on Magnetic Resonance Imaging and Neurobehavioral Functions in the Apparently Healthy Elderly

Looks like someone has thought about this. I'm not going to beat this up. Looks like there are lots of reasons folks might have lesions and perhaps ordinary folks or crazy ones like me.

But to change my directionless thinking,

Lyon, WAY more folks host long term bacterial infection. Lots and Lots of folks are carrying the bacteria that causes pneumonia and don't know it. But, it's a smaller number (if you accept the CPn thinking on this) of folks who get this bacteria through the obstacle course that gets it into the CNS. We know it gets out of the lungs, just ask the cardiology folks, and we know it can live in your body for decades.

So I'm just trying to tie back to your thinking - this idea works and is tangentially explanatory of how billions are exposed to pneumonia and a fraction of those get MS. I bet if most of us had the test for pneumonia anti-bodies, we'd be surprised at the results. Ken
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Postby Lyon » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:49 pm

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Postby notasperfectasyou » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:41 pm

Lyon wrote:I guess the difference is that there is no evidence that any changing situation involving viruses or bacteria can explain the changes needed to explain the onset of MS (or allergy, asthma other inflammatory diseases) as they arose in our populations, and it's essential that a serious consideration fit that critera.


FOUL!!!

You're creating new rules in the middle of the thread!

Happy Sunday! Stock Market goes up tomorrow. Ken
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Postby Lyon » Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:57 pm

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Postby notasperfectasyou » Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:59 pm

Wow! That's a pretty steep requirement for someone who can barely do his own taxes. How about one year ago it took Kim 20.24 seconds to walk 25 feet and now she can do it in less than 5 on a good day. How many MS'ers on any therapy besides ABX can claim that? I have video to back this up.

So for example, give me an example of one of these requirements?

Ken
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Postby Lyon » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:21 am

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Postby notasperfectasyou » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:33 am

Bob,
I have always enjoyed our conversations and this one is no different.

For the record, Kim's 20.24 second time was sans exaserbation - it was pretty much in-line for where she was at the the time. I do have video of her 59 second walk that we did a few weeks later when she was going through her very first major bacterial die-off. She needed trekking poles for that. I don't talk about that walk anywhere because it was so "outside of the box". But, she was greatly inflammed like an exaserbation, however, unlike an exaserbation, she came out of it walking better. That's sorta my point. Over one year, there have been bumps that are relapse like, but they are from heavy bacterial die-off related inflammation, not exaserbation inflamation. There have been 4 such episodes in the last year - all documented in my ABX thread. Following each one, Kim improved, rather then losing something.

I do accept that it's possible that some don't have bacterially caused MS, but in Kim's case, the impact has been striking.

I understand that a clinical setting is needed. But, if Kim and I waited for ABX to get FDA approved, she'd be in a wheelchair at best. We looked at everything we could find, including anecdotal evidence from many here and we figured that it helped some, but did not result in harm - so there was nothing to lose and everything to potentialy gain. I feel that you made a similar calculation with Tovaxin - which you know I was very much hoping would happen in a big way. I bet on Tovaxin in a different way.

So for us it was simple, low risk, low cost, big potential outcome - the biggest part of the investment was dedication. Die off is a lot like an exaserbation, so you have to have confidence in what you are doing to be on ABX. Both are inflammation. Both leave you feeling similarly lousy. The only difference is what's actually being killed, bacteria instead of myelin. The bacteria resides near the areas where your myelin has been impacted so, it should make sense the inflammation there will give you similar side-effects. It's just that the overall results are different.

I know many will wait. Dr. Sriram is in the middle of a 3 year trial. So then there will need to be another trial and another. Meanwhile, Kim has control of her bladder again. It may be anecdotal, but for Kim it sure counts that she don't need to wear pee pads anymore.

So, Kim and I are very happy about this and I just want to be able to share this with others in hopes that it just might help someone else. even if We can help just one other person who has MS find relief this way, it will have been worth the hours I spend here sharing Kim's path to improved health and function.

Other stuff......

I don't know how much more proof Kim and I need than what we have experienced first hand. But Pneumonia is not geographically distributed evenly and it does, if I recall correcty, have a lower infection rate in warmer climate because the bacteria doesn't live as well outside the body in warmer climate. Bacterial infection also can tie into the Faroe Island example. I also think ....... given the stuff that doctors need to do before they give the MS diagnosis .... think about it, no one walked into the physician and got a blood test or peed in a cup and was told they had MS. More likely there were multiple appointments with multiple professionals and sereral test that might have been costly. Given this, I don't think everyone that has MS around the world is diagnosed, or they also might die of something else first before anyone could figure out why they couldn't walk so well.

I do not mean to say or suggest that I have a complete explanation for MS as a bacterial pathology. I'm not qualified now nor wealthy enough to fund such research. However, In order to introduce a new and FUNCTIONING approach, I have to start somewhere. So why not here? What better thing to share at TIMS than soemthing that significantly helped you oversome the progressive impact of MS? Ken
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Postby Lyon » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:31 pm

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