Inclined Therapy I.T. Multiple Sclerosis & Varicose Vein

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Have you ever had varicose veins, Obvious swelling in veins, in your hands or feet? Or haemorrhoids? If you use a wheelchair and have experienced haemorrhoids, answer yes if you have had this problem prior to using a wheelchair.

I have ms but never had varicose veins, or haemorrhoids,
46
43%
I have ms and also have varicose veins or haemorrhoids
44
41%
I Have ms and have experienced visible swollen veins but not varicose veins
17
16%
 
Total votes : 107

Postby Loobie » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:57 am

Sarah,

So far his qualifications to me have been an inquiring and organized mind. He may have 10 PhD's or he may have none; it matters not to me and many others who look at the pragmatism of it, not the plaque on the wall. Some of the greatest breakthroughs in the world, in all areas mind you, are not all done by a PhD weilding person. Follow the track of his research and let me know when you can point out something that wasn't thorough or done as a response to the data. Whether you're trying to or not, you're coming off smarmy and elitist. I don't come on the ABX thread and start being elitist and asking 'zinger' questions. If you feel good about your approach, I celebrate it and congratulate you! Just because we are not all worshipping at the altar of ABX does not mean you should look down your nose. Ask pertinent questions, don't just ask questions designed to zing someone who is only trying to share.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:35 am

Loobie, as I said above, I greatly respect the work that Zamboni has done, even though I think that he would do better getting together with someone like Prof. Sriram, thereby putting together both the vascular side and the pathogenic side. The same could be said here, of course, to the people doing the antibiotic research.

People, including me, criticize Trevor Marshall, the vitamin D hater, for not being a medical doctor but a chemical engineer and for this I agree that I am elitist but never smarmy or snarky, as AC called me.

Sarah
Last edited by SarahLonglands on Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby Loobie » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:07 am

Sarah,

I wanted to apologize for the tone of my last post. I should't knee jerk and give such an emotional reaction, because it gets in all our ways when we start emoting and not thinking about this disease. So I hope I didn't come off too snide.
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Postby SarahLonglands » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:26 am

Willingly accepted! I do just the same...........Sarah :oops:
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:02 am

gibbledygook wrote:In the azygous vein, for which Zamboni shows stenoses, blood flows upwards towards the brain. Tilting the head up with pillows or the above would likely make the venous reflux worse!


This is a common understandable error based upon literature that is in need of some serious updating. we have circulation rather than a system that sends blood to one end of the body or the other. We can improve or decrease circulation by tilting the bed and we can increase or decrease the size of the vessels by altering the pressure inside and outside of the fluid filled tubes. One only has to watch a stream flowing for a while to realise how water molecules drag on each other. We can see water flowing down which is obvious but less obvious is the reflux in the water that causes whirlpools and bi-directional flow. So it should come as no surprise that two directional flow in the blood vessels is observed under Doppler flow.

In fact Professor Michel Cabanac, published a paper on two directional flow in the brain due to exercise completely reversing the direction of blood flow back from the skin and through the skull to the brain, the opposite of pre-exercised state. He observed this using a Doppler
Michel Cabanac, Dept of Physiology. University Laval, Quebec Canada. Cabanc showed that blood flow is reversed when a person generates sufficient heat through exercise.

According to Cabanac, whom I have spoken to, the brain reverses the blood flow so that it runs from the skin through the brain, when normally it would flow from the brain to the skin. There are no valves in the vessels that carry blood through the holes in the skin!
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:29 am

Good afternoon Andrew, please answer this question, from the previous page:

Can I just ask Andrew K Fletcher what his qualifications are for his "research?"

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Feb 28, 2009 9:49 am

It’s a fair question to ask what qualifications I have to question the literature that all of the qualified people rely upon. I do not have medical qualifications, nor have I ever claimed to have. View the video on Youtube and listen to what the reporter states about qualifications. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D7tBQfCxQ

When I began this fascinating research journey, I had no idea where it was heading or indeed that I needed any qualifications to think freely and follow a logical direction. I still do not have a PhD on my chosen subject of gravity-assisted circulation, but what I do have is by far more useful than a framed certificate on the wall. It is called freedom to problem solve at my own pace without any external influences to cloud my judgement. This is important in this instance because having little knowledge of human physiology all those years ago was a huge bonus because it allowed me to look at the whole picture of circulation from a different perspective. Varicose veins going flat when the bed is raised at the head end for instance does not fit happily with current physiology literature, in fact, the opposite tilt is advised to temporarily relieve the pressure and oedema by shifting the problem to the upper part of the body. The problem with this approach is, it clearly does not resolve the oedema or varicose vein problems!

The photographs of varicose veins I have provided pose some very serious problems for the literature. Here we have tilted the bed at a 5 degree head up angle that has clearly reversed the venous pressure problem that caused the varicose vein which until now was believed to be a result of damaged valves in the veins. We have not replaced the valves in the man’s legs, again this poses more problems for the literature.

We are therefore clearly altering the pressure inside the veins by relying on the pull of gravity in the correct IBT direction! So why should the veins in other parts of the body have a separate pressure dependency? What separates the jugular vein from the varicose vein in the leg for example?


Anecdote wrote:Good afternoon Andrew, please answer this question, from the previous page:

Can I just ask Andrew K Fletcher what his qualifications are for his "research?"

Sarah
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Mar 01, 2009 9:21 am

This will be my last post on this thread since I am appearing too much for someone who has never even had any troubles with varicose veins, but I will say that the fact that you don't charge for your services is very laudable and there is, after all, no harm in sleeping with the head of you bed raised 6 inches.

Qualifications do give assurance to people that you does know something about which you is speaking, though. If you had a Fellowship of the Royal College of Pathology, though, you wouldn't want to hang it on your wall because it looks like something hairdressers hang in their salon. Consequently, David keeps his rolled up in the cellar.

Sarah
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 am

Be careful not to throw away the baby with the washwater.

15 years of my life dedicated to this subject is hardly lacking in an understanding of physiology. One would have to be blindfolded isolated, deafened and blinkered to not have absorbed a massive amount of papers and literature along this adventure. Many years ago science was conducted by people who were fascinated by it's many unexplored avenues. Today it appears to have been constricted. Free thinking is not a handycap, it is a useful tool.

2% of people who read about my research take an interest in it and tilt their beds to see if anything can come of it. That leaves 98% to find their own avenues and I have no problem with this whatsoever.

Sorry to hear you have not found this subject of interest and wish you and your partner a productive journey in your own search for answers.

Could you answer me a question. What qualifications did you require to become an artist?

Andrew


Anecdote wrote:This will be my last post on this thread since I am appearing too much for someone who has never even had any troubles with varicose veins, but I will say that the fact that you don't charge for your services is very laudable and there is, after all, no harm in sleeping with the head of you bed raised 6 inches.

Qualifications do give assurance to people that you does know something about which you is speaking, though. If you had a Fellowship of the Royal College of Pathology, though, you wouldn't want to hang it on your wall because it looks like something hairdressers hang in their salon. Consequently, David keeps his rolled up in the cellar.

Sarah
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Postby SarahLonglands » Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:34 am

Briefly, I have an MA in fine art, painting from the Slade School, University College, London.
Last edited by SarahLonglands on Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
An Itinerary in Light and Shadow Completed Dr Charles Stratton / Dr David Wheldon abx regime for aggressive secondary progressive MS in June 2007, after four years. Still improving with no relapses since starting. Can't run but can paint all day.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:08 am

Answer: You did not require a qualification to become an artist!

Anecdote wrote:Briefly, I have an MA from the Slade School, University College, London.
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Compression stockings in space

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:11 am

Compression stockings used by astronauts to help prevent varicose veins that prolonged exposure to microgravity causes.

Ironically flat bedrest, the very thing we are avoiding using IBT has also been used as a model for inducing the same harmful effects that micro gravity
causes in the body of healthy astronauts.

Collection: Powerhouse Museum
97/3/3 Compression gaiters, elasticised nylon/metal, worn by Vladimir Titov, USSR, 1988
Description
Compression gaiters, elasticised nylon/metal, worn by Vladimir Titov, USSR, 1983.
A pair of orange elasticised nylon compression gaiters, used to alleviate problems with varicose veins, to which cosmonauts are susceptible as a result of prolonged periods of weightlesness. Each compression gaiter is made of elasticised orange nylon, with a side metal zipper running 3/4 the length of the gaiter. There are adjustable laces (white in one and grey in the other) to improve fit and decrease or increase pressure on the leg. Tapered to fit the shape of the leg, being narrower at the ankle and broadening up the calf. Stretch-stitching around the laces and zips in navy coloured thread.
Production notes
The actual designer is unknown, but it was presumably a doctor or medical technician at one of the medical research facilities associated with the Soviet space program, such as the Institute for Bio-Medical Problems. The gaiters were designed to assist in the alleviation of a specific medical problem, the development of varicose veins in the legs during prolonged periods of weightlessness. Their elastic nature puts pressure on the legs, simulating the effects of gravity and thus preventing swelling of the leg veins. The adjustable lacings allow the gaiters to be 'customised' for the best fit and also provide the capability to vary the pressure on the leg as required. http://www.dhub.org/object/158074,space+exploration
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Please Vote on this Important Poll

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:40 am

How many people here are testing IBT?

Feedback is the only reward that is being sought here so please share your experiences using this simple non-invasive therapy.

If you are not yet using the IBT method, could you please let me know where my failings are in trying to present you with a balanced logical argument against sleeping flat?

If you have not done so, please answer the question about swollen / varicose veins. It is completely private to do so and we really need everyone's vote to get the full picture.

Regards

Andrew
Last edited by AndrewKFletcher on Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DIM » Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:52 am

Andrew we are going to try your theory, wife has MS and I recently found that have blood pressure, as you say it helps on both situations so we'll see!
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Thank You Dim

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:59 pm

Your BP measurements should provide stimulating reading over the next 4 weeks. I read that your wife is not exhibiting any obvious MS symptoms at present, so we will be looking for other improvements or indeed any adverse effects.

What to expect from Inclined Bed Therapy

First two weeks seem a little strange, you may get a few aches and pains, possibly slight stiffening in the neck as your spine receives gentle traction from the inclined posture.

Within two weeks you should begin to see some evidence of improvements including improved circulation. People seldom complain about improvements, hence the need to take photographs of varicose veins or skin conditions like psoriasis prior to tilting the bed, so that we can compare later photographs of same area of skin. Even if you have a normal 35 or 110 camera, the images can be transferred to a disk from your film at any photographic print producers these days. Once on a disk the pictures are easy to upload to a site or image store like http://photobucket.com/
and link them back to the forum. If you need help to do this shout, or send them by email to me and I will link them.


Ideal format for your online diary.

Diary Title: My Inclined Bed Therapy Diary or Journal

Begin a new thread stating your current conditions, how you feel during the night, first thing in the morning, aches pains itching, how long you have had ms, medication you are on and / or have tried in the past, Results experienced previously.

Following IBT start date, include / add anything you notice about the inclined sleeping posture that is different to sleeping flat for you and possibly your partners input may help also as anyone sharing the incline will inevitably experience changes too. Include anything negative or positive to give a fair appraisal. And if you are able to share photographs as a bench mark at the start of your diary this will add considerable validity to later posts.

Begin by giving a weekly report for the first 4 weeks, and then a report monthly will suffice. After 2-3 months if possible include link to next lot of photographs. Include comments from yourself and family and friends when they notice changes. Repeat the same photographs of the same veins amd skin area after a further 2 months. Simple, but will undoubtedly record all changes during this important experiment.

Controls:
There will be quite a few people reading these posts that are not able or willing to give this therapy a try, but who could provide valuable control evidence by creating an online diary also, including the same input as people using IBT. Again photographs before during and after would contribute enormous validity to this study / experiment. Again include how long you have had ms, other conditions and / or varicos veins, medication and what you have tried in the past together with any results.

Anyone who is already trying Inclined Bed Therapy please keep an online diary and share your own experiences using this as it will encourage others to try it and move us further towards our goals and get more people testing IBT. High numbers of people reporting changes again adds validity to our study and helps to let other people with ms know what to expect from Inclined Bed Therapy.

Andrew



DIM wrote:Andrew we are going to try your theory, wife has MS and I recently found that have blood pressure, as you say it helps on both situations so we'll see!
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