Inclined Therapy I.T. Multiple Sclerosis & Varicose Vein

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Have you ever had varicose veins, Obvious swelling in veins, in your hands or feet? Or haemorrhoids? If you use a wheelchair and have experienced haemorrhoids, answer yes if you have had this problem prior to using a wheelchair.

I have ms but never had varicose veins, or haemorrhoids,
46
43%
I have ms and also have varicose veins or haemorrhoids
44
41%
I Have ms and have experienced visible swollen veins but not varicose veins
17
16%
 
Total votes : 107

Postby frijkaard » Fri Dec 04, 2009 5:17 am

Dear Andrew,

I have read some of your posts and communiction exchanges. The results from the inclined sleep seem incredible! I have experimented for a couple of days by putting about six inches of books under my mattress. As a result, noticed some immediate improvements in my stamina, breathing, and balance. I have RR MS and would like to try this in my guest bed(I can't see the wife going for this in our bed). My symptoms are a weak left side(I ran two 26 mile marathons before MS now I can only run half-mile before the entire left side gives out), balance, and optic neuritis among other things.Tell me, what is the physiology behind this method as I want to try understand this (please in layman's terms) and explain this to the members of MS group. Also I want to do the "the full monty" this weekend and incline my guest bed properly. Any tips? Lastly, I have got a dear friend who has suffered for a while with leg swelling and blood clots in the legs. Doctors have put him on and off couadin (spelling?) Do you think that the IBT could help him? I'm excited about the potential possibilites for both of us. Thanks! I'm American. Your British. Go Chelsea!
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:04 am

Frijkaard

Thanks for experimenting with your bed and deciding to take this further.
This discovery is about density changes in the body fluids from evaporation at the surface of the lungs, sinuses, mouth, throat, nasal cavities skin, eyes and hair follicles.

Any density change at one point will cause the denser fluids to migrate through the circulation towards the point of exit. The point of exit is predominantly in the urine. To test this a hydrometer was used to test the density / specific gravity of urine produced by my wife (bless her) and me sleeping head down 5 degrees, horizontal, and head up 5 degrees, testing every time we produced urine.

What we found confirmed the theory spectacularly. Flat bed rest lowered the density of urine compared to inclined or head up bed rest, which markedly increased the urine density over normal daily activity. But sleeping head down was stunning. The results with the hydrometer showed that sleeping at a five degree to the horizontal head down angle our urine density over several nights fell to near water density. In other words the dissolved salts, metals, and sugars that normally were excreted in the urine were remaining in the body.

We both developed diarrhoea sleeping upside down or inverted, indicating that our digestive systems were not functioning properly either, the whole experience of inverting for several days was uncomfortable, resulted in headaches, a sense of pressure and a most uncomfortable night, but in the interest of science it needed to be conducted so we did it.

Dissolved solutes in the arteries not the veins move from source of concentration for example the lungs to a sink in this case the kidneys, which filter the solutes from the blood before it enters the return flow in the veins. The denser filtered fluid is then passed into the bladder and excreted in the urine.

The less dense blood can now be pulled back towards the heart from the dragging of solutes or blood molecules that flow down. (for every action there must be an equal and opposing reaction) We cannot say that blood flows down the body towards the feet. This is not possible without it causing the return flow!

Providing the return flow is always less dense than the downward flow the solutes move in the direction of gravity and assist circulation and in doing so ease the burden on the heart. (The opposite to what will be read in the literature).

The literature also recommends raising the legs to address oedema or fluid retention and / or varicose veins.

Clearly from the photographic evidence provided we can see that varicose veins are returned to normal looking veins sleeping on an inclined bed, which fits precisely with the experiment models shown on Youtube and with this new understanding of circulation, yet it contradicts the advice of the physiology literature leaving it in dire need of revision.

Several people during the early pilot studies reported hard lumps in their legs (thrombosis) vanishing without trace. This was verified when an elderly lady who was known to us showed the lump in her leg and on examination after several months the lump was gone..

Again proving that the circulation had increased and the blockage must have been resolved by the improvements in circulation.

Many people reported an increase in warmth compared to sleeping flat, warmer hands and feet whereas a person would normally expect cold feet for an hour or more they found themselves sleeping with their feet outside of the bedding to keep them cooler.

This was also confirmed when helping people with spinal cord injuries, something that has occupied me for several years having met with opposition to conducting a study for people with ms by people saying ms can go into remission which of course is true but for over 11 years in the case of Terri Harrison?

A lot of years have passed since I began this journey of discovery. No more guesswork here!

For those that would like to see this proven or disproved please set up your controlled studies (for which I have been fighting to have conducted for 16 years) as you will not find your results any different to the results that are unfolding and are about to unfold on this forum.

I still believe the circulation in the nervous system is also operating the same gravity dependent flow and return system and this is why people with neurological conditions have found their condition greatly improves by avoiding a flat bed.

Andrew K Fletcher
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Recent photographs of varicose veins improving on I.T.

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Dec 05, 2009 6:41 am

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-51953.html#51953

More photographs uploaded from Alun who has been sleeping inclined

VV study from where the photographs were originally posted following 18 months of Inclined therapy.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum ... c=9843.275

Have posted on front page of this thread so that others can find them more easily.

Thanks Alun


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Postby Johnnymac » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:08 am

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the quick response to my email. I'm glad I sent you those pictures for advice, your suggestion to add a platform on top of the existing flats to raise just the mattress and box springs instead of the entire bed sounds so much easier and better looking. I'll be getting it done this weekend, looking forward to ti!

In addition to my wife's MS, I curious to see what this may do for me. I have a slight curvature of the spine, family history of neck and back surgery, and have had no less than a half dozen episodes so far (i'm 34) where my back will completely freeze up and will take 48-72 hours before I can move without extreme pain. About 3 months ago I started having sharp pains in my left buttock, usually worsened when sitting for long periods of time, but always better when I get up in the morning. This pain is daily for me and I'm afraid I have a problem with my sciatic nerve.

I'll keep you informed of any changes we experience.

Cheers,
John
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Dec 05, 2009 11:44 am

Hi John

You are both going to enjoy sleeping inclined. Would be very interested to hear from you also regarding your problems with spine as this is a condition that I.T. works well with.

You may experience some discomfort over 2-3 weeks as the inclined bed applies traction. Suspect you are in for a few surprises .

Best wishes

Andrew
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Postby ForeverSpring » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:02 pm

Today, after some discussion with Andrew about inclined angles in excess of five degrees in the Inclined Bed Therapy thread in the CCSVI forum here:
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-80432.html#80432

I increased the angle of inclination of my bed from 5 degrees to 6.5 degrees.

Why not? :)

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Postby ForeverSpring » Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:24 am

Andrew,

After trying the 8.5-inch elevation for two nights, I am thinking that I should return my bed to the 6-inch height. I like to experiment, always looking for something better, but sometimes it is best to leave “well-enough” alone! :lol:

Yesterday morning I awoke feeling unbalanced, like my entire left side was congested -- although I sleep on my right side -- and almost walked into the walls a few times.

This morning, the same thing happened. Also, today my entire left side is numb and tingly from head to foot. There is a pinpoint of pain in my left shoulder and just below my left elbow, and that arm feels heavy. (This is the way it was before beginning Inclined Therapy last February.)

This was quite unexpected! 8O Perhaps the change of inclination two days ago has caused the circulation pattern to shift somehow?

I could return to 6 inches for a few nights to allow the left-sided symptoms to calm down, and then try the 8.5 inches again?

The left side is still weakened from my last relapse almost 7 years ago. It improved so much with inclined therapy over the past 9+ months. Maybe these are only temporary signs at the new, higher inclination, and they would disappear shortly?

I am more than a little apprehensive about taking that risk. Everyone’s body is so different. While the higher angle of inclination has worked well for others, it may not be best for me.

Do you have any thoughts on this? Do you know of a similar setback with anyone else who has tried to increase the angle of inclination?

I must choose between 6 inches or 8.5 inches before bedtime tonight. Right now, I think that 6 inches would be the wiser choice. :)

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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:09 am

Fascinating. Thanks for testing the higher incline and yes a number of people with ms have tried before to go to higher elevation and all reverted back to six inches.

Not the case however for other non-ms conditions, Penny with psoriatic arthritis finds the opposite when sleeping at a lesser angle, her bed is like the North Face of the Eiger.

Spinal cord injuries benefit from the increased traction the extra incline places upon the spine and pretty certain the stimulus on impact damaged spinal column and spinal cord is slightly more significant at the higher elevation, hence after a number of people with SCI experimented the greater angle was adopted.

Another possibility now that we understand Chronic cerebrospinal venous insufficiency a little more is that the greater angle could alter the diameter of the veins more and therefore it may be prudent to avoid this until we can have it confirmed by a medical examination.

Unfortunately, I do not have any means of measuring this.

Andrew
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Postby ForeverSpring » Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:48 am

That is fascinating! :!: Thanks for your quick reply.

The change made in the incline was so small, really. 8O

Between the time I wrote my last post and the time I read your response, I put the wood blocks under the foot end to change the head elevation back to 6 inches.

I have been staggering around, my head feels top-heavy and achy on top, I am nauseous, and even had some pain deep in my right eye, which has not occurred for a long, long time.

Well, I will not try that again! :lol:
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Postby gainsbourg » Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:37 am

I have to admit, I am not the most frequent reader or contributor to this forum and only just found out about this whole inclined bed theory thing today. I know what its like to have scepticm poured all over your theories. However, I feel that that can be a good thing in some cases as it makes us think deeply and productively.

I've just read through all the thread, plus the other IBT posts, watched the YouTube videos, seen the refusal letter from the Lancet and so on, I have to say Andrew, you've done some great research and it looks like you are on to something big here... I will give it a go from tonight! What I love about it is its simplicity - Occam's Razor comes to mind. Maybe our ancestors slept on a straw incline before they invented the bed!

If I could make one contribution to the discussion...we only spend about a third of our lives sleeping. What about the other two thirds? The tree sap analogy really impressed me so shouldn't we be spending more time standing - so long as we are not totally wheelchair bound? You mention that we shouldn't sit at a computer for more than an hour at a time but this is only skimming over what we should be doing during (posturally) during waking hours. Do Aboriginals and other native/equatorial/eastern people who don't get MS spend more time on two feet? I'll bet we spend more time sitting than 150 years ago.

Has anyone found that when they've gone through days or weeeks or years when they've stood more during the daytime that their symptoms have been any different?


gainsbourg


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CCSVI CVI MS and Inclined Therapy

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu Dec 17, 2009 2:35 am

I have to admit, I am not the most frequent reader or contributor to this forum and only just found out about this whole inclined bed theory thing today. I know what its like to have scepticm poured all over your theories. However, I feel that that can be a good thing in some cases as it makes us think deeply and productively.

I've just read through all the thread, plus the other IBT posts, watched the YouTube videos, seen the refusal letter from the Lancet and so on, I have to say Andrew, you've done some great research and it looks like you are on to something big here... I will give it a go from tonight! What I love about it is its simplicity - Occam's Razor comes to mind. Maybe our ancestors slept on a straw incline before they invented the bed!

If I could make one contribution to the discussion...we only spend about a third of our lives sleeping. What about the other two thirds? The tree sap analogy really impressed me so shouldn't we be spending more time standing - so long as we are not totally wheelchair bound? You mention that we shouldn't sit at a computer for more than an hour at a time but this is only skimming over what we should be doing during (posturally) during waking hours. Do Aboriginals and other native/equatorial/eastern people who don't get MS spend more time on two feet? I'll bet we spend more time sitting than 150 years ago.

Has anyone found that when they've gone through days or weeeks or years when they've stood more during the daytime that their symptoms have been any different?


gainsbourg



Thank you for your reply. I can see from your post that the simplicity of this discovery has grabbed you.

Scepticism is welcomed and as you rightly state is productive even when it sounds negative. But there is a big difference between healthy scepticism and contempt prior to investigation, which is the more usual reaction from most people.

“If something sounds too good to be true it generally is too good to be true” is another gut reaction, but sadly in error when it relates to Inclined Therapy.

Another accusation from people trying to dissuade a person from tilting their bed has been the snake oiled salesperson accusation. This perhaps the most difficult to understand as there are no sales in this discovery, just endless costs in both time and money.

If a doctor had discovered this, the doctor would have a huge battle on their hands to get it into mainstream. We only need look at the struggles of Dr Franz Schelling and now Professor Zamboni to see how vested interests selfishly guard their lucrative lifestyles. Anything or anyone that threatens them is in for some severe venom spitting.

But thanks to the Internet, the luxury of suppressing valuable information has been ripped from their grasp.

Zamboni had the good foresight to publish his papers in open format for all to read. For this we all owe him a great deal of respect.

Your reference to walking and standing more than we do today is now obvious because you have understood the significance of the movement of dissolved salts in the body and how these movements control and influence circulation.

I too have pondered about these peoples that do not have ms among them.

Andrew
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A comment from an Incliner on my Facebook account

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:40 am

John from Facebook

here's a good one... "When the body is upright, the fluids within it are continually exposed to the effects of gravity. This encourages lymph and, particularly, blood to move down into the lower limbs." So, if you sleep horizontally, this movement stops -- couldn't be good for you over the long haul.

Been at 6" for 18 months ... all kinds of problems have been solved. Thanks again Andrew for continuing to promote the inclined sleeping position. You have helped many, many people and the "movement" is only getting off the ground. In the future people will say "remember when we used to sleep on a horizontal bed?" -- just like they now say.. "remember when we used to think that smoking was good for you?" There is always resistance to change -- we develop habits over time and it'is hard to change our behaviour.

Take care Andrew -- see you sometime...

John is coming to the UK to meet me and Jude, looking forward to this.
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:04 pm

Hi Andrew,
I'm open to trying this. History is RR-MS for last 11 yrs since diagnosis, but I feel it actually started for me about 25 years ago when I was a very young teenager.

My bed has 5 inch wide legs but the legs are only three-quarters of an inch deep. I feel the bed would get quite unstable if I was to put blocks under the top 2 legs. Have you any other suggestions for raising it up 6inches?

Thanks.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:57 pm

5 inch wide legs is going to be very stable. You coukld get some plastic soil pipe from a builders merchants that will take the five inch legs and cut them to the correct size adding an extra inch to account for the legs.

This will look ok too.

Alternatively use plywood under the mattress ading 6 inch timber at the pillow end and 3 inch timber in the middle. The plywood needs to be around 3/4 " thick or more..
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Postby ikulo » Mon Dec 28, 2009 12:25 pm

Hi Andrew, I have read this entire post with interest. Thanks for your hard work! I am curious about the involvement of the jugular veins with IBT, and if it has been explained already then please forgive me. When the head is above the heart, research suggests that the internal jugular veins collapse. This mechanism then diverts the cerebral outflow through the vertebral plexus. In a lying position, however, the internal jugulars are open. So if a person has stenosed jugulars, the blood flow in a lying down position will cause damage per Dr. Zamboni's CCSVI theory. However, with your IBT, could it be possible that by keeping the head elevated, a person maintains cerebral outflow through the vertebral plexus, thereby bypassing the damage jugulars, and inhibiting CCSVI-caused damage?

Thanks!
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