Sleep

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Sleep

Postby MaggieMae » Wed May 13, 2009 8:06 am

My husband cannot sleep. This has been going on for years. If he gets a couple of hours at a time, he is lucky. Lately things have been worse. I've read this can be caused by the MS. No, he doesn't sleep during the day. Any suggestions.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed May 13, 2009 8:33 am

my 2c are:

as much exercise as possible,

b-100 complex daily with a meal,

a banana for an evening snack, and

a warm magnesium drink at bedtime (try to get him up to 600mg per day, and do the reading on soluble vs insoluble forms of magnesium supps),

also make sure he gets enough zinc so that his body can use the b6 in the complex... say 25-50mg per day zinc.

got him on anything already, mm?

HTH,
JL
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Wed May 13, 2009 11:50 am

JL has some great tips. The trouble is that my sleep got SO bad even they did not work in the end and I'd often go into work on 4 hours broken sleep, like a kind of zombie.

The only thing that has worked for me is Amitriptyline - it got rid of the MS nerve pain that kept me awake. It also had a side-effect of reducing my bladder activity - very welcome because I often went up to 10 times a night. It reduced leg twitching too. I can't ever see myself coming off it because I am a new person now that I know I'll get a good 8 hours sleep each night.

I take 25mg of Amitriptyline about 19.00 every evening and I sleep like a (happy) log. :lol: One word of warning - I find that I can't drink much alcohol at all on it. One glass of wine is the limit - if I go over that I'm exhausted the next day. But I don't mind becuase I'm not a big drinker.

Lack of sleep is like torture after a while, I completely sympathise. I left my insomnia go for 10 years before I did something about it. Hope your husband finds something that works for him - perhaps the amitriptyline is worth a go if his problems are the same. HTH
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed May 13, 2009 7:13 pm

it's certainly one thing to just be wakeful because you can't sleep, and another problem altogether to be kept awake by pain.
is there something in particular keeping hubby awake, mm? or is he just not able to fall soundly asleep?
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Re: Sleep

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu May 14, 2009 1:45 am

Maggie, lift the head end of the bed 15 cm's or six inches so the whole bed is tilted from head to toe. Google: Inclined Therapy

More information on my previous posts. The fact that the pain intesifies at night should confirm the logic in this suggestion.

Andrew

MaggieMae wrote:My husband cannot sleep. This has been going on for years. If he gets a couple of hours at a time, he is lucky. Lately things have been worse. I've read this can be caused by the MS. No, he doesn't sleep during the day. Any suggestions.
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Postby MaggieMae » Thu May 14, 2009 6:34 am

To answer some of your questions.

Besides the Tysabri, BP med, prostate med, provigil, one vicadin at bedtime, he takes Neurotin for his legs. Is that similar to Amitriptyline? He also takes omega 3's, B12, vitamin d, calcium/magn/zinc, and an additional zinc. He also takes MSM at night which helps the spasms more than the muscle relaxers that he took for years ever did.

I asked him what keeps him up at night. He said 95% of the time, it's his legs (jumping was his term).
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Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu May 14, 2009 10:31 am

MaggieMae. Trust me and tilt the bed. It will take a few weeks for the problems to calm down, but he should be more comfortable from day 1 and it won't cost you a dime.
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Postby Bubba » Thu May 14, 2009 2:10 pm

Only one thing works for me... I take 1mg xanax and 2 simply sleep pills 20 minutes before I want to be asleep, and bam! I am asleep! I also sleep very good for about 7-9 hours. Been doing this for a long time, and I havent built up any tolerance to the xanax, still 1mg....
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Thu May 14, 2009 2:14 pm

MaggieMae
Neurontin is prescribed for neurological pain but it's originally an anti-epileptic, whereas Amtriptyline is a tricyclic anti-depressant, but is used to treat insomnia, chronic pain, and MS pain. You can read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amitriptyline .
I certainly was kept awake before I took Amitriptyline by restless, tingling, painful, twitching legs.

The fact that the pain intesifies at night should confirm the logic in this suggestion.

All pain, MS or not, intensifies at night. It is to do with all the systems in your body going on "standby" so any pain is felt more keenly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 14, 2009 2:56 pm

hi mm,

ok couple more questions:
- how much b12, what time of day?
- how much d3, what time of day?
- is the cal/mag/zinc at the same time as the d3?
- does he get any other supplemental magnesium at a different time than the d3 intake?

the reason for the timing and dosage questions is that i'm suspicious that his d3 intake could be affecting his magnesium status. just looking at the way you present the list, it looks like a possibility. it did happen to me - then i chanced upon a pharmacist who recommended magnesium, and it worked wonders.

so depending on what he's doing for dosage and timing right now, there might be some additional steps you could take.

a few snippets:

"magnesium affects blood pressure by modulating vascular tone and reactivity."
"It has been reported that the concentration of extracellular magnesium ions ([Mg++]o) can affect blood flow, blood pressure and vascular reactivity in intact mammals."
"A small pilot study suggests that magnesium may prevent or delay progression of vascular calcification"

"Magnesium sulfate for control of muscle rigidity and spasms and avoidance of mechanical ventilation in pediatric tetanus."
"The effects of magnesium glycerophosphate oral therapy on spasticity was studied in a 35-year-old woman with severe spastic paraplegia resulting from multiple sclerosis (MS). We found a significant improvement in the spasticity after only 1 week from the onset of the treatment"

and a quick FYI copy of an earlier post to a sleep issues topic..
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-49731-n ... ntin#49731
nutrients depleted by gabapentin
-vitamin b6
-vitamin b9(folic)
-vitamin b12
-vitamin d
-vitamin e
-vitamin k
-biotin
-calcium
-L-carnitine
source (includes reference list)
http://www.publix.com/wellness/notes/Di ... n#Dni-Supp


HTH mm,
JL
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Postby ursula » Sat May 16, 2009 7:53 am

Hi MeggieMae,

I have been struggling with my bad sleep for one year now. Tried so many things (Vitamins etc.) but nothing really helped.
I took part in a trial which examined fatigue and sleeping disorders in MS
(the results are not available yet).
The professor recommended to take Mirtazapin which basically is an antidepressant.
The normal dose is 30 - 45 mg.
If you take only 15 mg it manly makes you sleep and does not work antidepressive.
At first I took only 7,5 mg which still seemed to be too strong - now I take only 3,75 mg an have a perfect sleep every night like 8 - 9 hours. No side effects!
I will take it for 3 months and then stop it - it shouldn´t make addictive.

I am very happy again. The months before that were horrible.

Ursula
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat May 16, 2009 8:02 am

what exactly did you try ursula?
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Postby ursula » Sun May 17, 2009 6:57 am

hi jimmylegs,

I know you are very much into vitamins..
So I shouldn´t have said I tried all of them - because I basically tried everything else
I was just too lazy to translate everything.
I tried valerian, magnesium, bach flowers, various teas and so on... nothing worked.

As I said, mirtazapin is working perfectly for me and I´m glad that I only have to take a rather "homeopathic" dose of it (a tenth of the normal dose!)

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Postby catfreak » Sun May 17, 2009 7:21 am

Sleep is such a mystery!

I don't sleep either. I have tried all the prescription meds. Currently use ambien or restoril and a klonopin.

I take vitimans and minerals now for several months. None helps the sleep problem. Tried the Mag tea which did not help sleep or the other issue it was suppose to help. :oops: :oops: I really had high hopes for the Mag (natural calm).

I hate that I take prescriptions drugs but then again I have to sleep to function.

Cat
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Postby Loobie » Sun May 17, 2009 7:48 am

If you're not opposed, MJ works very well for me and if you don't abuse it and use it only at night, you never need anymore than a couple of hits. I was a lunesta and restoril person, but they quit being effective. I always used MJ for this, but was not using it as the last thing I did before bed. Once I started that I've slept good ever since. And it doesn't knock you out so that I can still wake up to pee instead of peeing the damn bed!
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