100% EBV infection in MS

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100% EBV infection in MS

Postby marcstck » Wed May 27, 2009 8:36 pm

This study found that all 305 of its MS test subjects were infected with the Epstein-Barr virus. While this doesn't prove that EBV is the sole cause of MS, it certainly suggests that the virus does play a role in the disease process.

The researcher leading the study stated that "people that are not infected with the Epstein-Barr virus do not get MS".

Of further interest, analysis showed about a 50-fold increased risk of MS among people with the highest levels of EBV antibodies, compared with those with the lowest levels.

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis ... RSS_PUBLIC
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Thu May 28, 2009 2:37 am

Interesting Marc.

I got severe EBV (it infected my liver & caused hepatitis too) in 1991. 2 years later I was showing early signs of MS although there may have been even earlier neurological signs right back to when I was 13. In my opinion it triggered/escalated it.

I remember in 1992 reading of a particular herb that helps reduce EBV in the body, and thinking "I must get that" but I've never seen it since - has anyone else seen things that tackle EBV?
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Postby LR1234 » Thu May 28, 2009 3:07 am

My mono (glandular fever) also caused me to have hepatitis plus my neck swelled up so much that I had 10 student Dr's come to look at it!! (I was hospitalised)
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Postby Loobie » Thu May 28, 2009 4:40 am

EXCEPTION ALERT. I've never had an EBV infection. Never had mono. But there is a big BUT here. When they were checking everything in my blood, the doctor asked me "when did you have mono?". I told him never and asked if I could have just mistaken it for a sinus infection or something and he told me no way. But he said my EBV titer was so high that it sure appeared as if I did, so maybe there was some sort of underlying EBV activity that I never realized. I also had scarlet fever as a kid but I don't know what virus that is.

Never had an identifiable EBV infection, but the titers (whatever those are) say I did, so obviously it had been mucking around in my system.
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Postby Terry » Thu May 28, 2009 6:58 am

Me too, Lew. My kids had it, and I didn't, but my titers showed "past EBV infection".
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Postby cheerleader » Thu May 28, 2009 7:07 am

Infection with the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) is very common. In the United States, about 50% of all children 5 years of age and nearly 95% of adults have had an EBV infection.
After the initial infection, EBV remains in the body, mainly in white blood cells, for life. Infected people shed the virus periodically in their saliva. They are most likely to infect others during shedding, which usually causes no symptoms.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec17/ch198/ch198g.html
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Postby patientx » Thu May 28, 2009 8:04 am

I had the same experience; no mono, but I had the IgG antibodies. At one point during my MS workup, I saw an infectious diseases doc, who ran a bunch of standard blood tests. The results showed my EBV antibodies sky high. I asked the doc about this, and his opinion was that it's normal, just meant that I had been exposed to EBV at some point, but the infection was no longer active. Maybe one of the times I had bronchitis or a sinus infection, it was EBV.

But seeing all these reports linking EBV and MS has got me wondering. Why aren't neuros including this in the blood tests, at least for a research data point? And, even though they will say it's not an active infection, is this true? Could it be a continuing virus that's causing the MS? And, what if you just assume the EBV kicks off MS? What would you do about it?
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Re: 100% EBV infection in MS

Postby AndrewKFletcher » Thu May 28, 2009 8:21 am

Google "river valley" + viruses or + fever there is a pattern relating to high humidity.

marcstck wrote:This study found that all 305 of its MS test subjects were infected with the Epstein-Barr virus. While this doesn't prove that EBV is the sole cause of MS, it certainly suggests that the virus does play a role in the disease process.

The researcher leading the study stated that "people that are not infected with the Epstein-Barr virus do not get MS".

Of further interest, analysis showed about a 50-fold increased risk of MS among people with the highest levels of EBV antibodies, compared with those with the lowest levels.

http://www.webmd.com/multiple-sclerosis ... RSS_PUBLIC
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Postby marcstck » Thu May 28, 2009 12:23 pm

Most adults who carry EBV never had mononucleosis (myself included). The infection can often be asymptomatic, or can be mistaken for cold or flu.

This research does not show that EBV is the sole cause of multiple sclerosis. It does strongly suggest, though, that EBV plays a role in the MS disease process. It is likely that EBV in combination with a genetic predisposition and some other environmental trigger (such as vitamin D deficiency, or another chronic infection) sets off the immune cascade that we know as multiple sclerosis.

Once the MS disease process has been triggered, it is unlikely that the eradication of EBV would put a stop to it. Since there is currently no way to clear EBV from the body, it's impossible to say for sure.

Incidentally, Rituxan does clear the body of B. cells, in which EBV takes up residence. Could that have something to do with the drug's demonstrated effectiveness in treating MS?
Last edited by marcstck on Thu May 28, 2009 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby marcstck » Thu May 28, 2009 12:28 pm

cheerleader wrote:
Infection with the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) is very common. In the United States, about 50% of all children 5 years of age and nearly 95% of adults have had an EBV infection.
After the initial infection, EBV remains in the body, mainly in white blood cells, for life. Infected people shed the virus periodically in their saliva. They are most likely to infect others during shedding, which usually causes no symptoms.

http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec17/ch198/ch198g.html
cheer


That's all true, and is common knowledge. This study shows, though, that people who don't have EBV do not get multiple sclerosis.

It also shows that people who don't have EBV at some point, and then contract the infection, can then go on to develop MS. Subjects who remain infection free never develop MS.

The study also demonstrated a direct correlation between the level of EBV antibodies in a given subject, and their chance of developing MS at some later point.

The evidence is extremely compelling that EBV does play a triggering role in the MS disease process...
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Postby Loobie » Thu May 28, 2009 1:58 pm

I was always thinking it was more HHV-6 as that virus has been implicated as well. Hopefully one day we can just wipe out EBV. It seems to muck up a lot of stuff.
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Postby dignan » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:15 am

It will be nice when they finally figure out EBV's exact role in the MS disease process. Right now it looks like a trigger, but possibly not involved with the ongoing disease.


Epstein-Barr virus infection is not a characteristic feature of multiple sclerosis brain.

Brain. 2009 Jul 28.
Willis SN, Stadelmann C, Rodig SJ, Caron T, Gattenloehner S, Mallozzi SS, Roughan JE, Almendinger SE, Blewett MM, Brück W, Hafler DA, O'Connor KC.
Department of Neurology, Center for Neurologic Diseases, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Boston, MA 02115, USA.

Multiple sclerosis is an inflammatory demyelinating disease of the central nervous system (CNS) that is thought to be caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors. To date, considerable evidence has associated Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) infection with disease development. However, it remains controversial whether EBV infects multiple sclerosis brain and contributes directly to CNS immunopathology.

To assess whether EBV infection is a characteristic feature of multiple sclerosis brain, a large cohort of multiple sclerosis specimens containing white matter lesions (nine adult and three paediatric cases) with a heterogeneous B cell infiltrate and a second cohort of multiple sclerosis specimens (12 cases) that included B cell infiltration within the meninges and parenchymal B cell aggregates, were examined for EBV infection using multiple methodologies including in situ hybridization, immunohistochemistry and two independent real-time polymerase chain reaction (PCR) methodologies that detect genomic EBV or the abundant EBV encoded RNA (EBER) 1, respectively.

We report that EBV could not be detected in any of the multiple sclerosis specimens containing white matter lesions by any of the methods employed, yet EBV was readily detectable in multiple Epstein-Barr virus-positive control tissues including several CNS lymphomas. Furthermore, EBV was not detected in our second cohort of multiple sclerosis specimens by in situ hybridization. However, our real-time PCR methodologies, which were capable of detecting very few EBV infected cells, detected EBV at low levels in only 2 of the 12 multiple sclerosis meningeal specimens examined.

Our finding that CNS EBV infection was rare in multiple sclerosis brain indicates that EBV infection is unlikely to contribute directly to multiple sclerosis brain pathology in the vast majority of cases.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19638446
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Postby ElMarino » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:02 pm

Could explain why B cell depletion (rituxan/campath and, on a grander scale perhaps, high dose cyclophosphamide) - EBV lurks in b cells.
Would also explain why high doses of vitamin d ) shows success - vitamin d messes with the way EBV functions..
If they ever solve the problem of producing an EBV vaccine, perhaps MS is solved too..
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Postby marcstck » Sat Aug 01, 2009 3:50 pm

Interesting study. I'm pretty sure most researchers are looking at EBV as a disease trigger, and not the direct cause of multiple sclerosis.

One of the prevailing theories is that a smoldering infection such as EBV might trip dormant ancient retroviral DNA that has become part of the human genome, in effect turning these genes on. This might then cause our immune systems to start seeing our own cells as pathogens to be attacked and destroyed...
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Postby LiquidSkin » Mon Aug 03, 2009 3:19 am

I have never had EBV or Mono, I even double check with my mom to see if I had it really young, yet again nope.

I was a really healthly kid, so I wonder if there are other things that might be triggers.
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