Fish oil?

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Fish oil?

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:58 am

Has anyone heard that fish oil is good for MSers?
User avatar
Brian
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby iluvbunnies » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:09 am

:) Hey Brian,

I've heard the Fish Oils are good for MSers but I can't recall right now what all I read. I take 6 Salmon Oil pills daily and drink Essential 7 which has a ton of nutrients in it.

Rhonda
User avatar
iluvbunnies
Newbie
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:00 pm

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:16 am

Thanks. Where do I get Essential 7?
User avatar
Brian
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby LindaR » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:25 am

I heard that fish oils or flax seed oils are good because there reduce inflamation. I take Flax Seed oil and Evening Prim Rose Oil
User avatar
LindaR
Family Member
 
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2004 4:00 pm
Location: USA - Connecticut

Postby Brian » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:49 am

Well since I started taking it last week, I do feel a difference. It is suppose to reduce my Silent Inflammation. I was just wondering if it was a bunch of sales hype or if the rest of the world uses it.
User avatar
Brian
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Orlando, FL

Postby Daunted » Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:07 pm

Brian wrote:Well since I started taking it last week, I do feel a difference. It is suppose to reduce my Silent Inflammation. I was just wondering if it was a bunch of sales hype or if the rest of the world uses it.


Unless there is a clotting disorder or some other compelling reason not to, taking 6g (6000 mg) of Fish Oil per day has many health benefits. It should be a no-brainer for anyone with neurological issues- it might lower your blood pressure or cholesterol or have other benefits as well.
User avatar
Daunted
Family Elder
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: University Town, USA

Re: Fish oil?

Postby NHE » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:40 pm

There are many references on PubMed that discuss the anti-inflammatory effects of omega-3 fatty acid supplementation. Many of these also discuss the relevance of the above effect to autoimmune diseases such as arthritis and MS. This reference is an older paper (1995) but it's a good one and it had a positive influence on my decision to take fish oil supplements. You may be able to get a copy of the full paper from your local university library.

Fish oil supplementation is also discussed in many books on MS. However, I've discovered that some of these books do not distinguish between cod liver oil and omega-3,6 fish oils. These are distinct and should not be confused. Cod liver oil is a rich source of vitamin A and D but has a relatively low level of omega-3 oil (~67mg/500mg) when compared to omega-3,6 fish body oil supplements (~360mg/500mg).

NHE
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 3300
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby Stoli » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:07 pm

they are anti inflammatory and assist with swelling..

It is also a polyunstaurated oil (?) and therefore not hard at room temperature like saturated fats such as butter. :evil:

It was once exlained to me that because it isn't hard at room temerature it is very flexble (myelin is made up of fats).

Therefore it stands to reasons that you should limit sat. fat which isn't as flexible as poly - last thing you want is more of those myelin thingys snapping off. 8O

Keep 'S'myelin
Stoli
User avatar
Stoli
Getting to Know You...
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Australia

Postby JFH » Fri Jan 07, 2005 4:51 am

The UK's National Institue for Clinical Excellence half-heatredly supports fish oil see p34 of http://www.nice.org.uk/pdf/CG008publicinfoenglish.pdf

And my neurologist suggested a diet with a large oily fish content.

I seem to remembering reading that OMEGA-3 fatty acids are v good and OMEGA-6 fatty acids not so. Sorry memory blown (wonder why?!) cant recall references.
John
I am what I am
User avatar
JFH
Family Elder
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: England

Contaminates in some fish oil

Postby flora68 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:52 pm

First, let me say that the last thing I want to do is dampen anyone's enthusiasm for fish oil supplements. I think they're great and I take fish oil caps daily, and/or hemp seed oil, which may be even better, but that's a thread for another day :wink: .

I just want to pass on some important things about fish oil supplements. And please forgive me if you've all already heard all about it, but here goes:

1.Beware of cheap fish oil :( . The "junk fish" that many fish oil supplements are harvested from is not necessarily the purest, healthiest stuff around :? . Some is contaminated with heavy metals like mercury or lead, organochlorines including PCBs and pesticide residues. Be careful about your source.

2. Because they can affect blood clotting, avoid fish oil supplements if you’re taking any anticoagulant drugs like Coumadin (warfarin), have had a hemorrhagic stroke or are scheduled for surgery. (I probably should have listed this one first :oops: .)

3. Even if you take Omega 3 supplements like fish oil, you may still need to eat food sources of these oils anyway. (Hence the name"supplement"!) On his website, Dr. Andrew Weil said that "if you are not getting any omega-3’s from your diet, you may have difficulty getting adequate levels of EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docoahexaenoic acid) from supplements alone. Choose a brand that provides high levels of both EPA AND DHA in the least number of capsules. "

Here's a link to the whole article about it:

http://www.drweil.com/u/QA/QA93664/

To access some stuff on his website, you may have to register, so if the link doesn't work, let me know and I'll be glad to paste the article.
User avatar
flora68
Family Elder
 
Posts: 135
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Contaminates in some fish oil

Postby JFH » Sun Jan 09, 2005 1:15 am

flora68 wrote:Beware of cheap fish oil :( . The "junk fish" that many fish oil supplements are harvested from is not necessarily the purest, healthiest stuff around :? . Some is contaminated with heavy metals like mercury or lead, organochlorines including PCBs and pesticide residues. Be careful about your source.


Great point flora! We're quite fussy about sourcing food choosing organic products or products of bona-fide origin at least as often as possible. I guess I'm too trusting, naive, whatever and hadn't even questioned these processed foodstuffs. I will in futrue.
John
I am what I am
User avatar
JFH
Family Elder
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: England

Postby Jill » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:13 pm

i've taken fish oil capsules for years. i have heard they're good for CNS function, cardiovascular function, and a whole long list of other "functions"! lol! it's good stuff and inexpensive. can't hurt, might help. so why not?! :D
jill
User avatar
Jill
Family Member
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby RevLeonidas » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:52 pm

Jill wrote:i've taken fish oil capsules for years. i have heard they're good for CNS function, cardiovascular function, and a whole long list of other "functions"! lol! it's good stuff and inexpensive. can't hurt, might help. so why not?! :D
jill


Why not Jill? Because it's taking a short-cut. A body will always be better off by consuming the whole food, and not just the part of the food which research suggests is the good part of the food. There likely is other food compounds in cold-water fish, flax seeds, hemp seeds, etc. that provide the whole benefit to a body.

Well, if the whole food thing ain't for you, be nice while you're on them fish pills: make sure you don't burp on anybody. :wink:
User avatar
RevLeonidas
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:00 pm

Postby Daunted » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:18 pm

RevLeonidas wrote:
Jill wrote:i've taken fish oil capsules for years. i have heard they're good for CNS function, cardiovascular function, and a whole long list of other "functions"! lol! it's good stuff and inexpensive. can't hurt, might help. so why not?! :D
jill


Why not Jill? Because it's taking a short-cut. A body will always be better off by consuming the whole food, and not just the part of the food which research suggests is the good part of the food. There likely is other food compounds in cold-water fish, flax seeds, hemp seeds, etc. that provide the whole benefit to a body.

Well, if the whole food thing ain't for you, be nice while you're on them fish pills: make sure you don't burp on anybody. :wink:


I am in favor of eating as many whole foods as possible. Having said that, I don't think that because something is a "short-cut", it makes it lesser than a whole-food...and especially for someone who has a chronic disease.

Fish oil is a supplement and should be consumed in addition to regular fish in the diet. But, since hardly anyone can eat fish every day, consistent fish oil supplementation has benefits that are not realistically attainable by just eating fish...and since there is a Cleveland Clinic fish oil/low fat diet study that showed a reduction of almost 1 EDSS point after a year on fish oil/low-fat diet...it is definitely worth taking.

I also benefit from taking B12, Alpha Lipoic Acid, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Selenium, Pycnogenol, Vinpocetine, Bromelain, and Quercetin in amounts that would be difficult to consume daily in the form of whole foods.

So I think whole foods are valuable but that judging supplements to be less than them, is incorrect; they are not lesser, just different.

And I do recommend that the most healthy diet is undoubtedly a whole-food diet, with as many fruits and vegetables (raw or steamed) consumed as possible, lots of spinach and greens, lots of fiber, organic chicken or fish for meat, and as few processed foods as possible.

But I also take my supplements every day. There's research supporting most of them.

Here's the article that leads to me taking Fish Oil every day:

STATE UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK AT BUFFALO, DEPARTMENT OF NEUROLOGY
A Randomized Study of Low Fat Diet with Omega3 Fatty Acid Supplementation in Patients with Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis (RRMS) Thurs, April 18, 2002
Bianca Weinstock-Guttman, Monika Baier, Peterkin LeeKwen, Joan Feichter, Suzanne Dinehart, Jaya Venkatraman, Kulwara Meksawan, Mary Rensel, Pamela Bochiechio, Carol Brownscheidle, Frederick Munschauer, Richard Rudick Buffalo, NY; Denver, CO; Cleveland, OH

Objective:

To determine whether a low fat diet supplemented with Omega3 long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFA) positively affects quality of life in patients with RRMS

Background:

Dietary manipulation is beneficial in patients with cardiovascular disease, and lipid modification has recently attracted attention in autoimmune diseases. PUFA and their derivatives are considered potent modulators of the immune and inflammatory responses. The benefits of dietary intervention in MS have not been rigorously studied.

Design/Methods:

Patients with RRMS were randomized into a 1-year single-blind controlled study comparing two dietary interventions:
Group 1 received a very low total fat diet (15% of daily calories) with supplemental w-3 PUFA (6 fish oil capsules/day).
Group 2 received the American Heart Association Step I diet (total fat<30% of daily calories) with placebo supplements (6 olive oil capsules).

Patients were on interferon b or glatiramer acetate for at least 2 months before entering the study.

The Physical Components Summary Scale (PCS) from the Short Form Health Survey Questionnaire (SF 36) was the primary outcome measure supplemented by the Modified Fatigue Impact Scale (MFIS) and the Mental Health Inventory (MHI).

Physician-rated secondary outcome measures were the Kurtzke EDSS and relapse frequency. Adhesion molecules (ICAM-1, VCAM), prostaglandin PGE2 and leukotriene LTB4 plasma levels were determined using an enzyme linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA).

Results:

This is a preliminary analysis on the first 23 patients.

Baseline characteristics were similar in group 1 vs. group 2, except for MFIS: (gender 81.8% vs. 83.3% female; age-mean 44.8 vs. 42; disease duration-3.9 vs. 3.3; EDSS 1.95 vs. 2.09, SF-36/PCS: 44.7 vs. 40.3, MFIS 57.4 vs. 37 (p=0.02), and MHI 86.3 vs. 75).

Mean follow-up was 8 months (range 1-12 months). Eight patients completed the 1yr study, 16 completed 6 months. Patients tolerated the diet well, but no significant difference was seen in the quality of life measures examined over time.

However, there was a significant decrease in number of relapses in Group 1 patients compared with their relapse rate 1 yr prior to the study: -.64 (SD= 0.5) (p=0.0019). In contrast, there was no difference in Group 2 patients.

Significantly less disease progression was seen in group 1 (p= 0.0306). When comparing the levels of immunological parameters, a significant decrease in ICAM-1 from baseline was seen in the 15% diet group (p=0.0098) as well as the 30% group (p=0.0358). PGE2 levels showed a significant decrease only in the 15% diet group (p=0.04).

The change in ICAM-1 levels was persistent in the 15% diet group patients that finished their one year study (p=0.04).

Conclusions:

This preliminary analysis suggests that very low fat diet (15%) with supplemental Omega3 PUFA was very well tolerated and may have a beneficial effect on disease parameters in patients with RR-MS.
User avatar
Daunted
Family Elder
 
Posts: 271
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: University Town, USA

Less IS different...

Postby RevLeonidas » Tue Jan 11, 2005 12:29 pm

Daunted says, "So I think whole foods are valuable but that judging supplements to be less than them, is incorrect; they are not lesser, just different."

I don't wish to discount those who have had good results from supplementation; in fact, at one time I was a supplement pusher because I had gotten sensational results from regularly taking things like flax oil, fish oil, CoQ10, B12 (methylcobalamin), a high quality multi-vitamin, as well as many other supplements and herbs that my health care providers recommended. However, no matter how much research you drum up, supplements are lesser than whole food; it's irrational to say that supplementation is equal.

Research shows that there have been over 20,000 unique food compounds identified in the human diet. Of those, it is impossible to locate, replicate, and customize the necessary, and auxillary (healing), for every individual in supplement form.

Instead of pushing supplements these days, I encourage people to eat a colorful diet of mostly vegetables and fruits (the red-orange-yellow-blue-green-indigo-violet foods with fish and raw nuts diet.) It's a first-things-first approach. I see identifying, and recommending, helpful supplementation as putting the carraige before the horse. Learn how to eat well first, then determine how that diet needs to be supplemented.

For semantics sake, is whole health better than supplemental health or just different? Since my EDSS score dropped 4 points 6 months after dropping aggressive supplementation and switching to a macrobiotic diet of whole foods and fresh juices, I can't help but think that this approach will work for others.

Be Well,
Rev. Leonidas
User avatar
RevLeonidas
Family Member
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:00 pm

Next

Return to General Discussion

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service