National Health Care (U.S.)

If it's on your mind and it has to do with multiple sclerosis in any way, post it here.

Postby HarryZ » Thu Jul 30, 2009 6:10 pm

Bubba wrote:Just read where the U.S. spends 11 Billion plus a year in health care costs for illegals.... I rest my case...


Remove all the illegals (and you know that just isn't going to happen) and that would only be the tip of the iceberg in solving the health care system in the US.

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Postby Bubba » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:03 pm

HarryZ wrote:Remove all the illegals (and you know that just isn't going to happen) and that would only be the tip of the iceberg in solving the health care system in the US.

Harry


Do you not agree that, that would be a great start? 11 Billion pumped back into the health care system would be a nice boost. I agree with you though, that will NEVER happen.... :x
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Postby HarryZ » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:50 am

Do you not agree that, that would be a great start? 11 Billion pumped back into the health care system would be a nice boost. I agree with you though, that will NEVER happen.... :x


A good start,perhaps...but you know it's a wishful theory that logistically isn't going to happen. $ 11 billion is but a small amount of what the government can waste in any one given year.

What is also very important is the willingness of the medical profession to buy into national health care. That in itself is going to be a large hurdle. Without the majority of support from these people, it can be a very rough ride.

Harry
Last edited by HarryZ on Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby peekaboo » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:11 am

I just watched a documentary by film maker James Surlock called Maxed out: hard times, easy credit and and era of predator. It is worth finding and renting. what does that have to do w/ NHC? It stated the last 3 presidents of the US borrow/took billions of dollars from Soc Sec to balance the budget....no wonder our HCS is broke... :x
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Postby patientx » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:33 am

peekaboo wrote:I just watched a documentary by film maker James Surlock called Maxed out: hard times, easy credit and and era of predator. It is worth finding and renting. what does that have to do w/ NHC? It stated the last 3 presidents of the US borrow/took billions of dollars from Soc Sec to balance the budget....no wonder our HCS is broke... :x


The terminology must be a slightly wrong. I don't believe Bush ever balanced the budget.

And the same thing continues with the current president. Now the government is paying car dealers to take people's trade-ins. What the hell is that?
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Postby peekaboo » Sat Aug 01, 2009 10:44 am

Patientx- you are so right very iffy if any actually balanced the budget. Used it for war?
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Postby Loobie » Sat Aug 01, 2009 12:30 pm

peekaboo wrote:It stated the last 3 presidents of the US borrow/took billions of dollars from Soc Sec to balance the budget....no wonder our HCS is broke... :x


That's something I've been aware of and has actually stopped me a couple of times from applying. I just thought, OK, my 'letter' I get from them every year says "you've put money in for X years and you will get approx. X much if you became disabled today". And then I go back to facts like this and think what's the point?, the money isn't going to be there in a few years anyway.
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Postby patientx » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:08 pm

peekaboo wrote:Patientx- you are so right very iffy if any actually balanced the budget. Used it for war?


Actually, when Bill Clinton left office, the budget was balanced; apparently the country actually had a surplus. The war(s) was G.W. Bush's reason for running a deficit. Valid reason, but he's the only president ever to take the country to war, and not ask for a tax increase (he had actually enacted tax cuts before 9/11).

Sad thing is, now the government just seems to be printing money. Somebody's going to have to pay eventually. National health coverage is a worthy goal. (In my opinion) bailing out trading companies that made bad bets and credit card companies is not.
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Postby peekaboo » Sat Aug 01, 2009 4:11 pm

I'm with ya :)
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Postby Loriyas » Mon Aug 03, 2009 10:04 am

I have been thinking about this thread this past weekend. I am scared to death of nationalizing health care. I do not want government any more in my life than it already is (and I don't like the amount that it is in it already).
The following points are just a few reasons why I DO NOT want this bill to pass. It is a bill that we all need to understand-it is that important.



-p 22 of Heath Care bill mandates the government will audit books of all employers that self-insure.

-p 30 Section 123- a government committee will decide what treatment/benefits a person may receive

-p 50 Section 152 Health care will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

-p 58 Government will have real time access to individual's finances and A national ID health card will be issued

-p 59 lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer

-p 72 lines 8-14 Government will create a health care exchange to bring private health care plans under government control

-p91 lines 4-7 Government mandates linguistic appropriate services
Example: translation for illegals

-p 127 lines 1-16 Doctors/AMA - the government will tell you what you can earn

-p354 Section 1177 government will restrict enrollment of special needs people



I am not finished looking through this bill and it already scares the hell out of me. I am going to continue to research this bill but wanted to post what I have found thus far. We all need to be educated on this-it is too important.

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Postby HarryZ » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:22 am

Lori,

Living in Canada, I have universal national health care and would like to comment on the points that you have written:

-p 22 of Heath Care bill mandates the government will audit books of all employers that self-insure.


Ensures, for the most part, that the employer is being fair to the employee.

-p 30 Section 123- a government committee will decide what treatment/benefits a person may receive


Would think that his is very unmanageable. In Canada, the health care system determines what services are covered....and most are. But it doesn't determine what services the patient may want. For example, if the patient wants to have some kind of cosmetic plastic surgery, the system will not cover it but the pateint is free to pay whatever plastic surgeon she/he wants to perform the procedure.

-p 50 Section 152 Health care will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise


Hmmm, don't agree with his. Here, you have to have a Provincial Health Card which is issued by the government and presented every time you require any medical services. There is abuse here where an illegal will "borrow" and friend's card but that is being curtailed with the issuance of photo ID health cards.

-p 58 Government will have real time access to individual's finances and A national ID health card will be issued


They already have via the IRS.

-p 59 lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer


Not good at all!!! Doesn't happen here.

-p 72 lines 8-14 Government will create a health care exchange to bring private health care plans under government control


Any private health care company that ties to compete with the government plan is simply not allowed. We do have extended health care private insurance that many people use to cover services that the national plan does not...IE: private hospital room, dental, chiroptractic, optometry etc.

-p91 lines 4-7 Government mandates linguistic appropriate services
Example: translation for illegals


I believe they do their best here to try and communicate with people who don't speak English or French but there isn't anything formal beyond that.

-p 127 lines 1-16 Doctors/AMA - the government will tell you what you can earn


There are limits here what physicians can charge for their services and the rates are set by the government. Of course many docs do not like this but it prevents docs from charging absurd amounts for procedures which are covered. I've yet to meet a poor doc in Canada!

-p354 Section 1177 government will restrict enrollment of special needs people


Always a debatable situation.


You can't have a national system and also allow unlimited charging by the docs. When it comes to national health care, I think the US is about the only country on earth that doesn't have some kind of national plan. Does that make the US right and everyone else wrong? Or just the opposite?

There isn't a national health care plan that is perfect but staying the way the US is now isn't the anwer either.

Harry]
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Postby Loriyas » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:46 am

Harry
I am not saying that the US health care system is perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. However, it is not as bad as is being touted by the media. There are changes that can be made without nationalizing this. It is NOT the place of the US government to intrude on American's lives like this. Although we have allowed it to happen in the past that does not make it right to allow it to happen now. I want to see other plans that repair the problems without intruding on my health care. Like most Americans, I am happy with the health care plan I have. If this passes as is, I will not be able to keep this plan, not matter what we are being told.

You mention that in Canada no private health care company is not allowed. That is exactly my point. Banning private health care is interfering with the free market that has been the way business is supposed to run here. I don't want my country to "ban" private health care. That is not the American way.

I am continuing to research this bill. Not good.

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Postby Loriyas » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:59 am

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin ... 3200ih.pdf



Harry
This is the site where the health care bill is located. I encourage you and anyone else to go to the site and read the bill. That would be more than many of our senators and congress people have done! It is important to be informed.
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Postby HarryZ » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:37 pm

Lori,

You mention that in Canada no private health care company is not allowed. That is exactly my point. Banning private health care is interfering with the free market that has been the way business is supposed to run here. I don't want my country to "ban" private health care. That is not the American way.

I am continuing to research this bill. Not good.

Lori


Banning a certain segment of private health care, despite what you may think, does not interfere with the free market. You really can't have a private health care system competing with a government health plan. Each side gets damaged too much. We have a private health system that covers what the government system does not. While not perfect, the government system does work relatively well and guarantees that EVERYONE in the country is covered by health care.

I know Americans are loath to have government getting involved in certain parts of their life. Most other countries have a balance and it does work.

I'm just glad that our system has been in existence for some 50 years and despite bumps along the way, it is relatively effective.

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Postby cheerleader » Mon Aug 03, 2009 12:49 pm

Lori-
Thanks for the link to the bill. I'll get to reading it in the next week. Really appreciate that.
California now has access to my checking account...it is mandated that we pay our 1/4 tax bill with an automatic deposit that THEY TAKE out of our account. Really scary, but it's the law now.
I also worry about government access to our financial accounts, but with internet banking, it seems to be the future. Big Brother is watching.

That said, I do think we need reforms and limits in America, and we need a public option so that folks with pre-existing conditions and the uninsured can get health insurance. It was during the Nixon era that health insurance became a for profit endeavor. Anyone else remember when Blue Cross was a public option/non for profit health insurer?
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