Energy....

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Energy....

Postby Bubba » Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:58 pm

I know this has been hashed and rehashed.. But I am sick of being TOTALLY EXHAUSTED!!!! :evil:
The doc px me Nuvidgil, but I can take that and go to sleep. I have tried providgil, same thing. For pete's sakes, does anyone have a "secret" they would like to share to deal with this? :roll:
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Postby Wendigo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:20 pm

I have the same problem. The Provigil isn't all that, but if I've had enough rest I can rip into things early in the day I wouldn't normally be able to get done.

Nothing recharges my battery except hours of sleep. Resting helps, but it's like putting a dead camera battery in the charger for a few minutes just so you can take a picture or two before it dies again.

Provigil sometimes does nothing for weakness though and I end up feeling like a car stuck in neutral with somebody flooring the gas pedal...then need Xanax for the anxiety factor, on and on with dumb pills that aren't the answer. My old neurologist had a laundry list of drugs to try for fatigue and weakness.

I'll be watching this thread too.
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Postby Bubba » Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:51 pm

Your analogies are perfect. Couldn't have said it better myself...Now, if I can just make it through the next 10 hours of work.
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Postby Wendigo » Wed Nov 04, 2009 8:00 pm

Bubba wrote:Your analogies are perfect. Couldn't have said it better myself...Now, if I can just make it through the next 10 hours of work.


That's impressive to be able to do ANYTHING for ten hours.

The energy drinks scare me. Last one I had was in November 2007 after which I had my first and thankfully only episode of double vision. I haven't wanted to try another energy drink to see if that is what triggered it. I went to the emergency room thinking I'd had a stroke.

Amantidine was one drug my old neurologist suggested. I think it is a flu fighting drug if taken early enough in the course but worked for some MS patient's fatigue.
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:21 pm

Hey Bubba...
I'm so sorry the fatigue is slamming you. Last year Jeff found the combo of 2 supplements- EGCG (green tea) and quercetin really helped him. Lance Armstrong sells it as a natural energy drink, FRS.

Jeff's fatigue went from a 10 to a 3 after his stent procedure. Dr. Dake is measuring oxygen to the brain before and after open jugulars, and the difference is pretty impressive. Fatigue is one of the things most changed by the stenting.

Hope you find something that helps, I know it's a tough symptom and most folks don't understand how disabling it is. Hang in there-
cheer
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby sou » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:31 am

Shortest joke: "We may not be able to cure MS but we can manage its symptoms."
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Postby Wendigo » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:55 am



I think the L-carnitine would be in the vitamin section just about everywhere. It's 8 am and already need a nap to get the energy to get the store.
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Re: Energy

Postby NHE » Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:59 pm

I did a little experiment with acetyl-L-carnitine a few months ago. I took 750 mg/day for 3 months. I found it to be helpful in combatting mental fatigue. One of the above studies used 1g/twice a day. From my experience, I think that this dosage would be helpful though I would avoid taking it in the evening as it might interfere with sleep.

NHE
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:30 pm

acetyl-L-carnitine fights ammonia toxicity. here are some neurologic symptoms of hyperammonemia
•Neurologic
◦Poor coordination
◦Dysdiadochokinesia
◦Hypotonia or hypertonia
◦Ataxia
◦Tremor
◦Seizures
◦Lethargy that progresses to combativeness to obtundation to coma
◦Decorticate or decerebrate posturing

hyperammonemia is what happens when a patient, like most ms patients, have low uric acid. your ph gets too high, and your antioxidant power goes down.

hyperammonemia is when ammonia byproducts from food intake are not getting efficiently converted to urea in the liver.

zinc is required to optimize the processes of the urea cycle. ms patients are typically lower on average in zinc, compared to healthy controls.

the typical ms patient can help boost their uric acid level by optimizing their serum zinc. you don't have to try to take artifical uric acid or precursors like inosine. you just fix your zinc, and the uric acid will fix itself accordingly.

these numbers are roughly ballparked from memory of published studies i have posted on the orthomolecular regimen thread. i have not included units hear because it's just to show the contrast:

ms patients:
uric acid 194 (average)
zinc 13 (average)

healthy controls
uric acid 290-300 (average)
zinc 18.2 (average)

so, just throwing that out there. it could be that part of your fatigue is related to zinc and uric acid and ammonia. blood tests can help answer that question!

HTH,
JL
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Postby Bubba » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:09 pm

Speaking of Zinc...JL, this is a question for you...I have been faithful in my vitamins and minerals for bout 3 months. Feelin purdy good too. Now, I have also been very nauseous for three months. Talking to another officer at work the other night, vitamins came up. I was explaining to her what I take, and she made the spontaneous statement, "I used to take zinc, but it made me sick to my stomache". I quit taking the zinc 2 days ago, and I am no longer nauseous. What do you think? Zinc? or coinsidence? I believe it is helping withb my eyesight like you said, but I cant take being sick all the time.
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Postby Wendigo » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:48 pm

Bubba wrote:Speaking of Zinc...JL, this is a question for you...I have been faithful in my vitamins and minerals for bout 3 months. Feelin purdy good too. Now, I have also been very nauseous for three months. Talking to another officer at work the other night, vitamins came up. I was explaining to her what I take, and she made the spontaneous statement, "I used to take zinc, but it made me sick to my stomache". I quit taking the zinc 2 days ago, and I am no longer nauseous. What do you think? Zinc? or coinsidence? I believe it is helping withb my eyesight like you said, but I cant take being sick all the time.


I just recently started taking zinc, for eye sight, and have been losing some food I used to be able to hold down. I thought it was just stress or unpredictability of MS but now wonder if it was the zinc. I hate to think of giving it up before a fair trial but the nausea is an appetite killer, something I don't need.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:52 pm

hey there, ugh 3 months of nausea sounds pretty lame!

and yes, pills can make you feel queasy. used to happen to me, but not any more. i think it's just a matter of tweaking your regimen, and figuring out if you have to space things out a little more.

when i first started trying to fix my zinc deficiency, my doc said take 100mg per day. it made me sick. she said split it up into 50 morning and 50 night. i did that and have not taken more than 50 at once since then. and it doesn't make me sick any more. the form i take now is zinc citrate powder, in a capsule.

what daily dose of zinc, and what form, had you been taking? do you take it with food or on an empty stomach? have you had any bloodwork to see where your levels are at? can you refresh me what your regimen had been for the last 3 months?

i'll check back again tomo :)
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 05, 2009 9:16 pm

I take my supplements (zinc included) with milk. Helps my stomach.
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