Conversion disorder vs MS

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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 04, 2017 7:50 pm

how's your access to bloodwork, generally?
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 04, 2017 7:56 pm

an example of where i am going with that question introductions-f20/topic28969.html#p247337
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
User avatar
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:01 pm

Not good at all I live in the middle of a nowhere city with hardly any facilities the closest place for me to get blood work done is 60 miles away and I can't drive so I haven't had much blood work done in a very long time...2+ years since I have even been able to get to my neurologist who is also 60 miles away. The only thing that I keep repeatedly going to the doctor for a local GP is bladder infections which is Aerococcus AER oh clock us multiple times and they still keep prescribing the wrong antibiotic so it never gets taken care of
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Thu May 04, 2017 8:08 pm

So I was under the understanding that there is no such thing as an over dose of vitamin D which was why I increased it so much I guess I should cut back on that but I really don't understand why a Doctor Who saw me one time after 12 years of having multiple MRIs that show lesions on my spinal cord and brain and then I was diagnosed with MS 14 years ago why all of a sudden he would diagnose me with something different (Conversion Disorder)
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 04, 2017 8:57 pm

ok so then it's down to diet analysis. that is weird re the doctor/flip flop dx. either way the pursuit of health is a fixed target independent of whatever labels docs are or are not attaching to your file.

can you post, in as much detail as possible, a typical day's intake of everything, food, fluids etc, right down to estimated serving size. then we can look at implications for some of the key nutrient issues common to ms patients. if not comfortable posting, you can pm me. i'm not judgy just want to help. i've been super stupid with diet in the past. it's why i am here.

re vitamin d3 there is such thing as overdose: hypervitaminosis D. nobody is really studying its impacts on magnesium status directly so i'm very lucky i ran into this one pharmacist who sorted me out.

by the way i used to get repeat urinary tract infections (when i was super poor and eating like absolute crap - literally bouillon in hot water and bread sometimes, actual recipe for disaster) and course after course of abx did nothing (how could it, really). have your docs also prescribed probiotics in follow-up to any of these failed abx rounds? that (with an herbal uva ursi tea) did it for me early on (i'm talking early 90s, i still had decent tissue stores of a few essential nutrients at the time). later i got one more (almost a decade ago now i think) but at the time had not yet figured out my zinc issues. since sorting that zinc situation out, all has been clear on uti front.

if you have a scroll down to 'natural approach' you'll find some recent posts related to mineral impacts on bacteria and viruses. there are some pretty simple dietary fixes in that mix. if only i didn't actually actively dislike some of the foods that are the ultimate sources of key nutrients :S #fwp
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Fri May 05, 2017 6:19 am

Thank you for your response I apologize if this comes across garbled but I have a lot of vision issues with the MS when it comes to dietary intake is probably really horrible but I am very low on cash half of my disability goes towards my rent so it doesn't leave a whole lot left over so the other issue is I can't really stand long enough to prepare anything to eat so I usually grab something out of the refrigerator because I can stand for just a minute to grab a piece of fruit like an apple and I also if I can do it which I usually try to make a meal but I open a can of soup can't use the microwave because I usually spill the soup before I can get it in the mictowave to heat it so I'll have a can of soup usually vegetable beef soup and an apple that's usually when I eat during the day as far as fluids I drink a lot of ice tea usually about 3 eight ounce glasses a day they do have meals on wheels here in this tiny town but I've called them and they won't deliver anything to me because I'm 57 years old and it's for people who are 65 or older so the other issue I have is I don't have anyway to get to a grocery store so I have one person in town that will get groceries for me and bring them over to my house but she takes the bus so she can't carry very much of the time there are no doctors here in this town that I feel comfortable with in my neurologist is 60 miles away they do have a shuttle that goes up to that town but it's $45 each Way don't have enough money to do that very often haven't seen the neurologist in a few years so I'm not on any MS medications anymore I was on Copaxone and I stop takin ing it a couple years ago I was relapsing remitting I am now secondary progressive. The evening then I had a fall out of my bed and I had to call for AMS to come and get me up off the floor they checked my temperature was 105 they took me to the hospital that's where they discovered that I had I guess it was a UTI but the infection has spread throughout the body on the doctor that I saw there was the Doctor Who told me I don't know what's wrong with you but you need to exercise your Obese and I asked him am I ok to exercise because my heart had water around it and he said your hearts fine and of course he was the Doctor Who happened to be in the ER the night that I showed up on he did numerous MRIs before he came up with the diagnosis of conversion disorder . I had had all of my records from my family Doctor Who had seen for 15 years sent to this Doctor Who just said I was obese and need to exercise didn't feel like I had an ass I had all my records sent to him and he said I've got a stack of records in my office I don't have time to look through everything there so much he told me I should not be living alone since I'm falling he would not give me a wheelchair because he was afraid that if I use a wheelchair I will get heavier and that was his biggest concern my weight is 160 pounds and 5 feet tall it's never really been lower than 150 pounds my whole life I've always been overweight but yeah hit that was his biggest concern so needless to say I need to move out of the area I live in. The problem I'm having now is it's difficult for me with the walker to get to the bathroom without falling I follow every single day sometimes more than once a day. Sorry such a lengthy post everyone tried to private message but again my eyes are not good enough for me to see what I'm doing wrong. I did stop taking the 8000 international units per day yesterday and I'm hoping that I can flush my system and maybe get a little bit better results if I'm not taking too much D vitamin I'll keep you posted thank you so much for your response
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Fri May 05, 2017 8:17 am

ok sounds like diet is likely a contributor then. what is the typical shopping list you give to your helper? we can figure out if there are any viable tweaks to be made in support of nutrient density, keeping in mind that prep is a barrier.
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Fri May 05, 2017 9:43 am

Spring mix salad, grapes, applws, croutons, chobani yogurt, soup, tomatoes, raspberries, bananas, potatoes, sour cream and 1x/month precooked rotisserie chicken
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Fri May 05, 2017 10:41 am

cant believe i never heard of chobani until that post. lol.

as a first heads up, your list looks on balance pro-inflammatory and low in the nutrient density department.

re inflammation when dealing with illness you want to aim for a +100 IF score daily.

on the free site i can't get a number for grapes but
green leaf lettuce scores +43, romaine +70
apple is -9,
bread -34 to -58 depending on type,
yogurt -30 to -145 depending on type,
beef is basically neutral,
carrots (1/2c) are great (i'm including assuming you get some in the soup) +104 to +164 depending on type (baby vs reg) and prep (cooked get the highest score for some reason),
tomato slightly anti inflammatory +10
no data on raspberries (blueberries are -15 strawberries +14)
banana -38
baked potato -47
no data for sour cream
roast chicken -19

so salad mix looks like the best thing on your list in terms of inflammation at least.
do you have any allergies? if not think about switching something out for mixed nuts/seeds and eat 1/4 c per day. good if the mix includes pumpkin seeds and brazil nuts. can't get an IF score for much in the nut dept but hazelnuts are +125. pumpkin seeds are in the negative -68 but it's about achieving a positive overall balance and they have solid nutrient density.
consider switching out one of the fruits for baby carrots.
could you do a weekly can of smoked oysters? that would help with zinc. and oyster IF score is +222 (the only score available for free is for 3 oz raw though).
consider alternate whole carb sources. i'm thinking of chickpeas as something easy to eat as is out of the can. check this out http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=58

i don't have time right now to go thru the list for any specific nutrient but that's a good next step. k gotta go ttfn :)
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby lyndacarol » Fri May 05, 2017 11:01 am

AprilG1961 wrote:I have a lot of vision issues with the MS when it comes to dietary intake is probably really horrible but I am very low on cash half of my disability goes towards my rent so it doesn't leave a whole lot left over so the other issue is I can't really stand long enough to prepare anything to eat so I usually grab something out of the refrigerator because I can stand for just a minute to grab a piece of fruit like an apple and I also if I can do it which I usually try to make a meal but I open a can of soup can't use the microwave because I usually spill the soup before I can get it in the mictowave to heat it so I'll have a can of soup usually vegetable beef soup and an apple that's usually when I eat during the day as far as fluids I drink a lot of ice tea usually about 3 eight ounce glasses a day they do have meals on wheels here in this tiny town but I've called them and they won't deliver anything to me because I'm 57 years old and it's for people who are 65 or older so the other issue I have is I don't have anyway to get to a grocery store so I have one person in town that will get groceries for me and bring them over to my house but she takes the bus so she can't carry very much of the time there are no doctors here in this town that I feel comfortable with in my neurologist is 60 miles away they do have a shuttle that goes up to that town but it's $45 each Way don't have enough money to do that very often haven't seen the neurologist in a few years so I'm not on any MS medications anymore I was on Copaxone and I stop takin ing it a couple years ago I was relapsing remitting I am now secondary progressive. The evening then I had a fall out of my bed and I had to call for AMS to come and get me up off the floor they checked my temperature was 105 they took me to the hospital that's where they discovered that I had I guess it was a UTI but the infection has spread throughout the body on the doctor that I saw there was the Doctor Who told me I don't know what's wrong with you but you need to exercise your Obese and I asked him am I ok to exercise because my heart had water around it and he said your hearts fine and of course he was the Doctor Who happened to be in the ER the night that I showed up on he did numerous MRIs before he came up with the diagnosis of conversion disorder . I had had all of my records from my family Doctor Who had seen for 15 years sent to this Doctor Who just said I was obese and need to exercise didn't feel like I had an ass I had all my records sent to him and he said I've got a stack of records in my office I don't have time to look through everything there so much he told me I should not be living alone since I'm falling he would not give me a wheelchair because he was afraid that if I use a wheelchair I will get heavier and that was his biggest concern my weight is 160 pounds and 5 feet tall it's never really been lower than 150 pounds my whole life I've always been overweight but yeah hit that was his biggest concern so needless to say I need to move out of the area I live in. The problem I'm having now is it's difficult for me with the walker to get to the bathroom without falling I follow every single day sometimes more than once a day. Sorry such a lengthy post everyone tried to private message but again my eyes are not good enough for me to see what I'm doing wrong. I did stop taking the 8000 international units per day yesterday and I'm hoping that I can flush my system and maybe get a little bit better results if I'm not taking too much D vitamin I'll keep you posted thank you so much for your response
I will enlarge the print on this post with the hope that it is easier for you to read.

I am so sorry to hear of your situation. There is apparently no helpful social services, no Meals on Wheels, no compassionate medical doctor where you live. Is there a friend, a neighbor, a family member who can help you? Perhaps a phone call to a local church office could find some help for you.

As you know, your diet does not sound good. I cannot believe that iced tea and soup can be making you obese. Since vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, obese people very often have vitamin D deficiency.

And, vitamin D deficiency has been linked to causing obesity and even diabetes (among many other conditions). Vitamin D is necessary for every system in the body to function properly – one of these systems is the blood sugar control system.

I think it is important to find out just what your vitamin D level is. A simple blood test is used to determine your vitamin D level. Might there be a visiting nurse program (perhaps through your local hospital) where someone could come to your house and take a blood draw? Some churches have a "parish nurse" who might be able to advise you of local programs.

Or if someone could help by pricking your finger, there is this option (The joint emergency fund established by a board of all local churches, regardless of religion, in an area may be able to help with the cost:

A 1-time vitamin D test kit is available from GrassrootsHealth for a $65 fee (+ $5 shipping). This at-home test requires pricking a finger, placing a few drops of blood on the blood spot card, and mailing it in (you get results within a week).
https://www.grassrootshealth.net/proj-welcome/?pr=95284

How to Complete Your Home Vitamin D Blood Spot Test (5 min.)
VitaminDaction Project by GrassrootsHealth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By4wQYV-UzU

Vitamin D has also been linked to falling:

Effect of vitamin D on skeletal muscle. (2016)
S. Walrand
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27100224

Vitamin D deficiency accelerates muscle loss with age (sarcopenia), and therefore leads to a reduction in physical capacity and to an increased risk of falls and fractures. In contrast, an additional intake of vitamin D in older people significantly improves muscle function and physical performance.
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Fri May 05, 2017 11:23 am

Thank you so much for all the information it's very helpful I will let you know as soon as I perform vitamin D blood test I won't be able to do it till next month because I just don't have the extra $65 but as soon as I do it I will post my results so that you're kind of aware of what's going on thanks again for all your help
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby AprilG1961 » Fri May 05, 2017 11:39 am

By the way no I don't think Ice-T is causing obesity I but I literally laydown all day long because I can't move without falling I'm also losing an awful lot of hair when I take a shower I have balls of hair when I rinse my head that come off of my head so somebody mentioned that it might be a thyroid issue which I'm guessing would also cause weight gain. I haven't had that checked either. As far as having family members help me with any of these things I have no family here they all live approximately 600 miles away so I'm doing what I can but it's not easy.
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby jimmylegs » Fri May 05, 2017 1:55 pm

hair loss can also be nutritional. when i was in my worst shape, after more than a decade as a very strict vegetarian (and too ideological to pay proper attention to essential nutrients), my eyelashes were falling out.

this is a weird abstract but the point is that iron is a likely suspect where the hair loss is concerned: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12190640
iron is basically the most common and the most widespread nutrient deficit problem on the planet.

the heme iron in the beef soup will be a part of your particular iron picture. looks like 1 can of beef veg soup can be expected to deliver about 15% of what you need each day:
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sou ... ies/1029/2
for comparison a serving of beef liver would deliver twice as much iron. but i get that preparation is a barrier there, never mind whether you actually like it or not lol.

here are some healthy non-heme iron sources (vastly different from your shopping list):
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
non heme sources should always be consumed with a good source of vitamin c like red or green pepper.

because spinach is such a fantastic source of many essential nutrients, and because it readily 'disappears' into soups, stews, sauces and so on, perhaps you could consider adding spinach to your soup. i thaw out frozen chopped spinach, portion it out into single servings, and refreeze. then i can drop a serving's worth into pretty much anything. i can imagine however, that could sound like too much work if heating canned soup is a problem.

lentils have even more non heme iron than spinach, and lentil soup even provides more iron (non heme though, of course) than beef vegetable soup. if you can work lentil soup into the rotation and augment all soup with a bit of spinach (wishful thinking?), i think you'll be ahead for a wide variety of nutrients.

the chickpeas i mentioned previously would make a contribution in the iron department also. any romaine in your salad mix will be chipping in it's little bit as well.

in your case, because you are facing multiple barriers to healthful eating, i suspect that a multivitamin/mineral might be a wise investment. and maybe someone can move that microwave a little closer so you can actually heat up your soup!
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: Conversion disorder vs MS

Postby lyndacarol » Fri May 05, 2017 5:00 pm

AprilG1961 wrote:I'm also losing an awful lot of hair when I take a shower I have balls of hair when I rinse my head that come off of my head so somebody mentioned that it might be a thyroid issue which I'm guessing would also cause weight gain. I haven't had that checked either.
Thyroid hormones can affect many things: low thyroid hormone levels can play a part in hair loss, and in weight gain, too. It would be a good idea to have the thyroid gland hormones checked. This is just a blood draw.

To add to jimmylegs's post on nutrition and hair loss… Vitamin B12 deficiency can also cause hair loss. It would be a good idea also to have your B12 level checked– more blood work.

According to the following article, your hair loss symptom may be another good reason to check your vitamin D level:

Alopecia (Hair Loss):

The role of vitamin D receptor mutations in the development of alopecia
. (2011)
PJ Molloy, D Feldman
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21693169

Text: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0711003005


Sometimes medication can cause hair loss. Like you, there was a time when I suddenly started losing lots of hair in the shower and when I dried and brushed my hair afterwards. I thought there was a connection to the Copaxone that I used for 6 months. But, in looking back now, I think my vitamin D level was low. Last year when I first had my vitamin D level blood test, my result was 24 ng/mL – frankly deficient. I think it has been low for a very long time, and this may have been the real reason for my hair loss.

After 4-6 weeks my hair loss problem stopped without doing anything. I have a full head of hair – not even any hair thinning.
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