Going through HELL...

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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:43 pm

They tested for cancer, thyroid, lupus etc. Vit D was ng/Ml.
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:09 pm

ok so that means b12 was likely pg/mL, it wouldn't hurt to keep that level above 500, and the d3 more like 40-50.

according to research, zinc and magnesium are also on the low side in ms patients - but they're not part of the standard workup at this stage.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:35 am

Thanks jimmylegs...just wish I could get some answers at this point. My B12 was at 395. The GP did say he wanted me to take zinc and magnesium but didn't say how much of any of it. I hope to see the nuerologist sooner than later and maybe I will have more info on what to do. Haven't had any episodes lately other than the continues aches in my legs and left arm. Hopefully that will continue to be the case.
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:38 pm

yw :)

all right here's some info. you can take 1000mcg/d of b12 as methylcobalamin sublingual strips.

magnesium is best absorbed in a form such as magnesium glycinate. i take 100mg elemental magnesium (from 581mg magnesium glycinate) daily, and another 100mg from magnesium citrate. that's all i can handle; any more and i notice weakness in my leg muscles.

zinc is best as zinc gluconate. i take 50mcg. if i take less my immune system suffers. i tried reducing the dose and caught a cold almost right away. i still haven't found a zinc gluconate product that balances properly with copper, so that's a supplement that you might need to look at buying separately. just did a bunch of looking into copper and the bioavailability news there is, choose something like copper citrate over cupric oxide. right now i am making my way through a bottle of zinc citrate (50mg) balanced with copper citrate (2mg). it's a good idea to get a serum copper test too since the copper zinc ratio is an important one for optimal health.

by the way, when i fixed my zinc issues my d3 absorption tripled. so that could help your d3 levels on its own. provided you're getting dietary d3 of course.

hope that helps :)
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:48 pm

Won't get to see a neurologist until February. Can't beleive it takes this long just to be seen. But, I guess I will have to have patience. My biggest complaint right now is my legs and ankles hurting all the time. Would the B12 supplement help that or should i wait to take anything until I see the Dr? I couldn't sleep last night because of the pain in my legs. Sucks!
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 06, 2012 3:35 pm

you could start with d3, mag, and zinc to start working on the pain issue. just track whatever you're doing so that you have a good record to eventually show any docs that might be interested. a concise diary is a useful way to convey what your average day or week look like to a doc, much more quickly and easily than trying to remember everything and tell them on the spot in an appt. also, i wouldn't count on the b12 for pain relief.
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info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:00 pm

Thanks so much for your input!! Will start taking some now!
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:21 pm

okay keep us posted. you'll probably need a specialty store to find the right supplemental forms, esp. w magnesium and zinc.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:11 pm

jimmylegs...went to the dr's office to get the print out of my blood work...scared the ....out of me. I am hoping you can give me some insight...as I said my appt. isn't until February but now I think this DR...should see me and give me some indication of what this all means!

WBC--(L) 3.4 x 10E3/uL

Neutrophils (absolute) (L) 1.7 x 10E3/uL

ALT (SGPT) (H) 55 IU/L

ANA Direct----NEGATIVE

Vit D, (L) 27.2

RA Latex Turbid (H) 14.1 IU/mL

Ferritin Serum (H) 199 ng.mL

Do you know what any of this means...nothing really comes back to MS....I am confused now bigtime!! Help if you can!
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:46 pm

hi, great job getting the info! so the (H) and (L) business appears to indicate High and Low levels, although they haven't shown the lab's range. no matter.

low white blood cells and neutrophils look like an unhappy immune system to me.. high ALT, that's a liver enzyme test - if it's high it indicates some liver trouble, enzymes out in the blood where they should not be... re your vit D3, units would be nice, to help clarify HOW low. where are you again? if that's an american vit d3 result, you could stand to get it up to 40. if it's 27 nmol/L, you need it to be about 4 times that, somewhere around 125-150 nmol/L. either way, you need to get a LOT more vit d3 in ya!

your ferritin level looked high to me, right off the bat = before i even registered the (H)s and (L)s. i try to keep my level around 100. there are a number of reasons iron levels can be high. do you supplement iron at all?

makes me very curious as to zinc levels now. ANA negative, that is good (autoimmune marker)

i'm too tired for any more this eve :) ttfn!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:42 am

Yes, the L's & H's are highs and lows. It scares the bejeezes out of me with the liver function. Don't understand what is going on with that. So my immune system is having issues but does this mean I have multiple issues, my BUN/creatine ratio was also at the top of the range at 23. I guess I have to wait for the darn doctors but really worried now...MS looks like a better diagnosis than what this could end up being...
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:24 am

just make them give you a serum zinc test. zinc is the glue that holds your liver and a lot of other stuff together. it's known very simplistically to be important for 'wound healing'.

fortifying liver tissue with zinc will help to repair any damage leading to elevated liver enzymes in serum. (just going on ms drugs they'd probably start testing your liver enzymes so that they can watch for ALT to rise once the drugs start causing damage in their own right. so perhaps this is a good thing. you can narrow down your choices for treatment based on the existing evidence of liver trouble).

there's a case study out there where an ms patient who had a liver transplant (ie fresh infusion of liver nutrient stores) experienced total remission from her ms. just occurred to me perhaps anti rejection drugs played their part but i'm not going to hunt it down now, i don't have full text access to everything at the moment.

anyway. what were the numbers for BUN and creatine separately? do you mean a high creatine to BUN ratio by chance? ie creatine is the larger number of the two? if you in fact have a *low* BUN/creatine ratio, that could point to inadequate protein.

so. zinckety zinc zinc zinc. will be very interesting to see and depending on the result, *could* help whip all those highs and lows back into shape :) at least some of them.

still wondering if you supplement iron or not? that ferritin level is something to keep an eye on.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby bartman » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:05 pm

newfluv,
low wbc is an indicator of an infection. You should also get tested for lyme, bartonella, babesia, cpn and mycoplasma pn. Then you should educate yourself on the lyme disease controversy. Then you should treat with antibiotics immediately regardless of the test results which are inaccurate 60% of the time. Furthermore, expect a herxheimer reaction and make sure to stay on the antibiotics until 2 months after all your symptoms are gone. Find a good llmd aka Lyme doctor. DO NOT USE STEROIDS of any kind, they may offer temporary relief but will destroy your immune system and allow the infection to disseminate and it will be much harder to get better. Finally, think about it....doesn't it make sense to try antibiotics first (the only medicine to ever cure anything in the last 60years), before ms drugs (which don't work and often make you worse) that suppress your immune system. When I say antibiotics, I mean using them in combination like the wheldon protocol. As Barry Marshall once said, I have never known anybody to die from using antibiotics, but many have died from not using them! Do the research, these infections mimic ms.
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:39 pm

actually wbcs should be high during infection.. possibly low *after* infection..

and speaking of infections.. nutritional antibiotics and antivirals are my favourites :)

Zinc and immune function: the biological basis of altered resistance to infection
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/68/2/447S.short
Zinc is known to play a central role in the immune system, and zinc-deficient persons experience increased susceptibility to a variety of pathogens. The immunologic mechanisms whereby zinc modulates increased susceptibility to infection have been studied for several decades. It is clear that zinc affects multiple aspects of the immune system, from the barrier of the skin to gene regulation within lymphocytes. Zinc is crucial for normal development and function of cells mediating nonspecific immunity such as neutrophils and natural killer cells. Zinc deficiency also affects development of acquired immunity by preventing both the outgrowth and certain functions of T lymphocytes such as activation, Th1 cytokine production, and B lymphocyte help. Likewise, B lymphocyte development and antibody production, particularly immunoglobulin G, is compromised. The macrophage, a pivotal cell in many immunologic functions, is adversely affected by zinc deficiency, which can dysregulate intracellular killing, cytokine production, and phagocytosis. The effects of zinc on these key immunologic mediators is rooted in the myriad roles for zinc in basic cellular functions such as DNA replication, RNA transcription, cell division, and cell activation. Apoptosis is potentiated by zinc deficiency. Zinc also functions as an antioxidant and can stabilize membranes. This review explores these aspects of zinc biology of the immune system and attempts to provide a biological basis for the altered host resistance to infections observed during zinc deficiency and supplementation.


Selenium Deficiency and Viral Infection
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/5/1463S.short
The discovery that the juvenile cardiomyopathy known as Keshan disease likely has a dual etiology that involves both a nutritional deficiency of the essential trace mineral selenium (Se) as well as an infection with an enterovirus provided the impetus for additional studies of relationships between nutrition and viral infection. An amyocarditic strain of coxsackievirus B3, CVB3/0, converted to virulence when it was inoculated into Se-deficient mice. This conversion was accompanied by changes in the genetic structure of the virus so that its genome closely resembled that of other known virulent CVB3 strains. Similar alterations in virulence and genomic composition of CVB3/0 could be observed in mice fed normal diets but genetically deprived of the antioxidant selenoenzyme glutathione peroxidase (knockout mice). More recent research has shown that a mild strain of influenza virus, influenza A/Bangkok/1/79, also exhibits increased virulence when given to Se-deficient mice. This increased virulence is accompanied by multiple changes in the viral genome in a segment previously thought to be relatively stable. Epidemic neuropathy in Cuba has features that suggest a combined nutritional/viral etiology. Further research, both basic and applied, is needed to assess properly the possible role of malnutrition in contributing to the emergence of novel viral diseases.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Going through HELL...

Postby newfluv » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:54 am

I went to another doctor since I couldn't get to the neurologist until Feb. which by the way still haven't gotten an appt.for. Anyway, she sent me for the MRI with contrast just on my brain. It came back with non specific white matter changes. This doctor thinks it still is MS since I have inflammation in my body. She is waiting for me to go to the neurologist also. Any ideas on what non specific means?? With all of my symptoms it sure is pointing to MS...
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