confused.

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confused.

Postby worried33 » Mon Jan 21, 2013 6:38 pm

Hello,
I am very confused at the moment and am not sure who to turn to for advice so i thought i would ask here, i am a 33 year old woman and have been experiencing symptoms over the past few months that i know are not normal for me. They include balance issues, i lose my balance sometimes and nearly fall flat on my face, i get dizzy and this happens at any time during the day, i have muscle spasms and twitches mostly at night, i am experiencing stiffness in my hands and i sometimes find it difficult to write, i also have a sore ankle and know that i haven't done anything to injure it, i am very tired, more than usual (i have sleep aponea), i suffer from depression and have for years, it takes me forever to try and pee, i can sit on the tiolet for 10 minutes before i actually begin to pee (too much information i know :oops: ) i have blurry vision and and am sick of the headches i get as well. I have visited the doctor, and all she talked about was ways to help with the constipation i experience, she also sent me for a blood test to see if i have any markers for an autoimmune disorder (i have no idea what she is talking about really and am hoping for some advice)
I have no idea what is going on with me except that i know that i do not feel normal and i just want a doctor to take me seriously, i am sick of explaining all of my symptoms to doctors and getting looked at like this is all something i am imagining. I know my body and it doesn't feel right, i joined this forum because many of my symptoms pointed at MS, although i am not trying to self diagnose myself, i thought it might be a good idea to get advice from people who have gone through this, maybe you guys might have advice about what i should do now or if there is anything i should be asking or saying to the doctor. As i said i dont want to barge into the doctors office and say i think i have MS and you have to do something about it, i just want my doctor to consider other possibilities instead of there being 10 different things wrong with me that maybe some of my symptoms MAY be linked together, i don't know. i apologise for the post that is all over the place but i'm a bit confused at the moment. Any advice??
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Re: confused.

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:11 pm

magnesium status could link several of your symptoms. such as spasm, twitches, stiffness, pain, fatigue, depression/anxiety, headaches, and constipation.

magnesium is also often low in ms patients.

the test is simple: serum magnesium. an easy blood test.

the results of a test will likely be 'normal'. as distinct from optimal. serum levels need to be at least 0.90, preferably 0.95 mmol/L.

there's lots of info available on food sources and supplemental forms if you're interested. you may find the links below (eg whfoods and my regimen) useful. if you have any questions, fire away :)
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Re: confused.

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:32 pm

Welcome to ThisIsMS, worried33. Feel free to share your experience with us and ask us ANY questions. For the most part, we are not medical professionals, but we are willing to share our ideas and our experiences with you. When asked for "any advice??" we usually have some:

First of all, I am quite sure that you are not imagining your symptoms; you DO know your own body best; YOU know when things are not right.

Next, you are completely reasonable to take the list of your symptoms to your doctor and expect her to rule out various possible causes. Sometimes personalities prevent a successful doctor/patient relationship – perhaps you need to look for a new doctor.

From your descriptions – muscle spasms, stiffness, difficulty in writing, tiredness, difficulty in peeing, even constipation, etc. – I see a common link in your muscles. In particular, smooth muscles surround the urinary bladder and the intestines; if those muscles do not coordinate and operate together well, the difficulties you described will occur.

One possible cause of those problems can be insulin resistance in those muscles. If your doctor is unwilling to test for this possibility, would she refer you to an endocrinologist? Ask your doctor to order a "fasting blood insulin test." (A test result higher than the optimal 3 UU/ML would indicate that you produce excess insulin which can lead to insulin resistance.) Do not confuse the insulin test with the glucose test commonly used to identify diabetes – the insulin test and the glucose test are TWO different tests.

Finally, hang in there. Find a doctor you can work with; be persistent; keep looking for answers. It is natural to feel confused. We are here to answer any questions that we can. All the best to you.
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Re: confused.

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:39 am

certainly agree, re muscle involvement..

magnesium could be worth a test from the insulin angle also..

related studies...
Role of magnesium in insulin action, diabetes and cardio-metabolic syndrome X (2003)
Hypertension, diabetes mellitus, and insulin resistance: the role of intracellular magnesium (1997)
Magnesium deficiency produces insulin resistance and increased thromboxane synthesis (1993)
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Re: confused.

Postby vesta » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:14 am

I don't think you need to get all tangled up with these blood tests, insulin magnesium etc on your own. Probably if you change your diet for 6 months at least, check out Wikipedia Paleo Diet, (Roger MacDougall since 1953), Wikipedia Macrobiotic Diet, Dr Wahl's diet (I don't agree with eliminiating grains but assume you have a gluten intolerance, I can est rice, millet, buckwheat - no wheat). Think of detoxifying and eating nutritiously. A nutritionist naturopath kinesiologist might be able to help but you can do alot on your own. By the time Doctors get around to deciding what is wrong, nothing will be wrong. I know it's a drag and you don't think it will help, but try, even if only 6 months (the first 5 days at least will be like drug withdrawal.)
More at MS Cure Enigmas.net
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Re: confused.

Postby worried33 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:28 pm

Thanks for your advice so far guys, just one question it was mentioned that i should be tested for insulin resistance, i have type 2 diabetes and i take no medication for it, my diabetes is controlled by my diet and so far my doctor is happy with the results and does not feel that i need medication at this point. I was wondering what, if anything does insulin resistance have to do with type 2 diabetes?
I will also mention that all of these symptoms i'm feeling have appeared in the last few months but i have had diabetes since my son was born in 2009.

Lisa.
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Re: confused.

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:22 pm

imho testing is worthwhile. first as a baseline, so that later on, you can figure out whether any dietary or supplemental methods are having the desired effect. if something isn't working the way you thought it would, it helps to know what's happening in the bloodwork.

example - in my case i tried using high purine foods for YEARS to increase my serum uric acid (since that is known to be low in your average ms patient). blood tests told me that my uric acid levels weren't budging, and in fact at one point went even lower than the ms average. without that info i would not have kept digging for a solution. luckily i eventually figured out the zinc interconnection and corrected both my zinc and ua levels simultaneously.

other example: ppl who supplement vit d3 at high levels for months on end, without achieving the desired results in lab tests. without tests, that's how you know to look for other factors that may be affecting absorption. adding magnesium and zinc has helped these folks get better results, anecdotally at least.
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Re: confused.

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:01 pm

worried33 wrote:...just one question it was mentioned that i should be tested for insulin resistance, i have type 2 diabetes and i take no medication for it, my diabetes is controlled by my diet and so far my doctor is happy with the results and does not feel that i need medication at this point. I was wondering what, if anything does insulin resistance have to do with type 2 diabetes?

I will also mention that all of these symptoms i'm feeling have appeared in the last few months but i have had diabetes since my son was born in 2009.


Lisa – Type II diabetes and insulin resistance are the same thing – just to different degrees.

The pancreas produces excess insulin in response to the glucose in the bloodstream; the cells become resistant to the insulin and will not allow the insulin to open up the cells and let the glucose inside where it can be an energy source. The pancreas produces more and more insulin in an effort to FORCE the cells to open up. Eventually the pancreas will be exhausted and no longer able to produce ANY insulin. (At this point, type II diabetes becomes type I and insulin must be administered externally by syringe.)

If you are able to keep your blood sugar (glucose) low with diet, it may be possible to postpone this transition for a long time. Diabetes is defined by the blood sugar level; insulin resistance can be assumed with a high insulin level.

By the way, the pancreas of a pregnant woman produces excess insulin in order to put weight (fat) on the baby she carries. I would guess that your pancreas did not reset to normal production of insulin after your son was born; your insulin resistance started then, but took this long to build up in your muscle cells and cause the symptoms you are experiencing.

Since you have type II diabetes, you probably have an endocrinologist. Discuss insulin resistance with him and request a fasting blood insulin test. You might even discuss the drug metformin (Glucophage) with him. Metformin increases insulin sensitivity; some people with MS symptoms have seen an improvement with this drug. The drug has been around for a long time and might be worth a trial, if your endocrinologist is willing.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: confused.

Postby want2bike » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:53 am

Might find a holistic doctor who will try and discover the problem rather than treat the symptoms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAhu6oa_ ... ure=relmfu
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Re: confused.

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 23, 2013 7:22 pm

zinc is in high demand in pregnancy and mothers can see their zinc levels decline throughout pregnancy, in spite of supplementation throughout.

re zinc and diabetes:

Serum zinc levels in diabetic patients and effect of zinc supplementation on glycemic control of type 2 diabetics
http://ipac.kacst.edu.sa/eDoc/2006/156679_1.pdf
The first part of the study shows that the mean value for serum zinc level was significantly lower in diabetic patients than healthy controls (64.2 ± 12.6 μg/dl for type 1 diabetics, and 68.9 ± 11.9 μg/dl for type 2 diabetics versus 83.4 ± 12.5 μg/dl for healthy controls) ...
Diabetic patients have significantly lower mean serum zinc levels compared with healthy controls. Zinc supplementation for type-2 diabetics has beneficial effects in elevating their serum zinc level, and in improving their glycemic control that is shown by decreasing their HbA1c% concentration.

i think in umol/L for zinc units, so have to multiply all these numbers by 0.153. the WHO 'normal' range is 11.5-18.5 umol/L. converting the numbers in the above study, i get 9.7 for type 1 diabetics (deficient), 10.6 for type 2 (also deficient), as opposed to 12.7 for 'healthy' controls. i've looked at a lot of studies of zinc levels in healthy controls and i have seen levels as high as 18 (right up at the top end of the 'normal' range) again and again.

could be useful to have a zinc test done
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Re: confused.

Postby worried33 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:55 pm

Hey Guys,

So i recieved the results back from the doctor in relation to bloods being tested for Rheumatoid arthritis and autoimmune markers, i called for the results today and was told that they were clear and fine and no action is required, well, i must say that in a way i'm glad but on the other hand, what the hell is wrong with me!!!!!!! I'm not sure what i should do now, are all these symptoms i'm experiencing in my head? I'm now afraid to go back to the doctor because i don't want to appear to be a hypocondriac (not sure on spelling, but you get my meaning).
The pain in my hands, fingers, wrists, left ankle and toes is getting worse as well as muscular aches and twitches, i am still dizzy and most of the time walk around looking like i've had too much to alcohol to drink although i'm completely sober! I just want answers but it seems like i'm to just put up with it.
Does anyone know if its still possible to suffer from some sort of autoimmune disorder/disease if there are no markers shown in blood test? i'm so frustrated and its getting me down, i just want to feel normal.
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Re: confused.

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:38 am

a simple possible solution: regardless of any more sinister disorder or disease, consider simple nutrition.
you could ask for a serum magnesium and a serum zinc test. as above, magnesium needs to be at least 0.9 to 0.95 mmol/L and zinc in the high teens, preferably in the 18-19 umol/L range.
the explanation for your symptoms could be as simple as that, and as easy to address as dietary change and/or supplements.
i imagine your mag levels are down around .7-.8 and zinc in the low teens at best. both 'normal', both realistic explanations for your symptoms.
results are the first step. then you know whether diet adjustments or supplements are in order.
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Re: confused.

Postby lyndacarol » Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:34 pm

worried33 wrote:...I'm not sure what i should do now, are all these symptoms i'm experiencing in my head?...

Does anyone know if its still possible to suffer from some sort of autoimmune disorder/disease if there are no markers shown in blood test? i'm so frustrated and its getting me down, i just want to feel normal.


Your symptoms are not just in your head!

Yes, it is possible to have disease without markers in the blood.
My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: http://www.thisisms.com/forum/general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: confused.

Postby want2bike » Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:15 pm

I know how you feel. I went through the same thing about 5 years ago. I was going back and forth to the emergency room about every 3 months. Things like muscle spasms in my back, bronchitis,dizzy spells, double vision, chronic fatigue syndrome, feeling of pins and needles running up my arm, and a variety of other problems. MRI's, CAT scans and a variety of test and I had nothing. They got paid very well for telling me I had nothing. My PCP gave me some blood pressure medicine and told me it was just old age and I would have to learn to live with it. You will die before these doctors figure it out. You can investigate your symptoms on line and figure it out for yourself or find a holistic doctor who can figure it out. My problem was the amount of root canals and amalgam fillings I had in my mouth. Once I had them taken care of by a mercury free dentist and got on a detoxification program all my symptoms went away. I haven't been back to the emergency room in 5 years and feel good again. The best thing you could do is go to the diet section and read as much as you can about healing through diet and design your diet. That is the way the body heals itself. I wouldn't worry too much about putting a name on your disease because true healing comes through the diet we eat. Keep in mind that in july 2000 JAMA reported doctors were the 3rd leading cause of death in the US. If you keep fooling around with these doctors there is a good chance they will kill you. Take your health in your own hands and figure it out. Not that hard to do. Eliminate all the toxins and eat a healthy diet and you have a good chance of getting better.

http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are ... the-US.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JF7TcPs ... ure=relmfu
Last edited by want2bike on Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: confused.

Postby vesta » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:49 pm

want2bike just gave you the best advice possible. I do believe MS is caused by a venous blood reflux into the brain caused by multiple factors. His history implies what I call toxic ms. (Mine as well) Yours may be skeletal.

SKELETAL MS: A misaligned skeletal, bone or dental structure can actually restrict the free flow of cerebrospinal fluid which in turn can compress or impede venous blood circulation. Structural problems can be either congenital or developmental in origin (e.g. accidents.) Recent scientific studies have focused on the interdependent dynamic of brain "fluids", the blood and the cerebrospinal fluid (CBF) which bathes the Central Nervous System. Excess cerebrospinal fluid can actually "compress" or limit blood circulation, hence the interest of Chiropractors in adjusting the Atlas bone to assure proper CBF circulation. If the problem is SKELETAL, angioplasty would not be appropriate. In this case it is not a problem INSIDE the vein but OUTSIDE. Chiropractic, Osteopathic or Dental adjustment may suffice to release the brain fluids flow leading to CURE or CONTROL.

See MS Cure Enigmas.net.
Congenital, Developmental, Aging, Skeletal or Toxic MS, Cure or Control.
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