Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 8:47 am

So, you haven’t figured it out yet why high amounts of zinc are in your liver? Let me tell you then.
Zinc is antioxidant and since iron in our bodies is creating oxidative stress, zinc is basically trying to control the damage done by iron. Since the biggest deposits of iron are in your liver, zinc will be there too. In another word, you can thank zinc for the fact you are alive today. Too much of zinc in the liver is also not good but it’s definitely a sign of iron overload.
In everyday life you will find iron products like nails coated with zinc. Why? Zinc prevents rusting. It’s a simple principle that applies in our bodies as well.
That’s why supplementing with zinc too much may also be hurting you because the zinc will end up in the liver sooner or later. Your first step should be to remove iron.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:20 am

FYI: 4 pages of previous (2009) TiMS chats on the ms liver, including zinc connection and touching on iron overload as well:
general-discussion-f1/topic6906.html
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:35 pm

Jimmy I am not saying that low zinc is good or that zinc is not important in our metabolic process. The problem is that when you have iron overload and you are a man, by supplementing with zinc you are mitigating your current situation but you are not correcting the past accumulations. Why do you think women live longer than men? Because they bleed half of their lives and the blood carry out some of the excess iron. Men who donate blood also live longer because they regularly remove the excess iron. Women are mostly to be diagnosed with hemochromatosis in their 60’s because that’s when the iron accumulation will start causing trouble.
If you take my daughter for example, she already have iron accumulation on her liver and even though she can cope with it through her menstrual cycle she has too much of iron in her body to be able to remove it all with just few days of bleeding. I already bought vitamin E the natural one, selenium and zinc and I will be giving to her all 3 right before her next period starts to manipulate the removal of iron in her body. The Ferritin will hold the one she needs and the rest will be flushed out little by little. I can manipulate this a little but she would benefit much better from chelation therapy because this way we would control the intake of iron, and at the same time remove the excess much faster and that would give her a chance to live a happy and healthy life. This way, she will continue to age faster, get sicker and eventually she may die much sooner because of it. Right now giving her Milk Thistle, vitamin E, Selenium and Zinc will remove the little iron from her liver but where it’s going to go? By design our body cannot remove too much iron all at once, but the floating iron could hurt her more than the iron in the liver.
If she was menopausal she would not have a way to remove excess iron from her body and therefore she would die of a painful death only because her liver enzymes were good while her liver wasn’t. Unfortunately, many people have cirrhosis and their enzymes are normal and so eventually after they are diagnosed they have no chance of survival. It’s simply too late. She is doing very well right now with her new iron controlled diet. We allow the supplements to be absorbed and heme iron only. The rest we are blocking and she is already making progress. Anyway, if my tests don’t show iron overload and I can’t get her diagnosed here I will take her out of the country and have the chelation done anywhere else in the world. This is how confident I am in what’s happening to her.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:09 pm

speak of the devil and speaking of chelation, I just was reading over this article related to other research:

Paradigm shift in treatment of Wilson's disease: Zinc therapy now treatment of choice
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 0405001750
Zinc therapy has replaced penicillamine [chelation] as first-line therapy for Wilson's disease. ... Zinc induces metallothionein, a highly effective detoxification protein that binds copper. Oral zinc therapy leads to storage of metallothionein-bound copper in the mucosa of the gut and to the excretion of copper via the stools.

checked out if there would be an iron connection - yep:
Effect of penicillamine and zinc on iron metabolism in Wilson's disease
http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10 ... 0701514495
Hepatic iron content was significantly increased in penicillamine-treated patients compared with zinc-treated patients.

as for diet, I think I already mentioned that the heme iron focus is sound from the zinc-iron balance angle..
a little more detail:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/iron-rich-foods
Very good sources of heme iron, with 3.5 milligrams or more per serving, include:
3 ounces of beef or chicken liver
3 ounces of clams, mollusks, or mussels
3 ounces of oysters


fyi
-liver is lower in zinc compared to iron, and pro-inflammatory .....http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/pou ... ucts/667/2
-clams have much less zinc compared to their iron content, are anti inflammatory .....http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fin ... cts/4182/2
-oysters have very high zinc content compared to iron, and are anti inflammatory as well .....http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fin ... cts/4192/2

So mixing it up would likely be smart.

of these non-heme iron sources, only pumpkin (possibly also squash) seeds are on my radar as useful zinc sources
Very good sources of nonheme iron, with 3.5 milligrams or more per serving, include:
Breakfast cereals enriched with iron
One cup of cooked beans
One-half cup of tofu
1 ounce of pumpkin, sesame, or squash seeds


cereal and beans are more likely to deplete zinc due to the gluten and phytate content, and therefore have the potential to exacerbate any zinc-deficiency-related problems with healthy iron transport and storage.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:30 am

But how zinc is removed from body? Even if it chelates all the iron it has to come out somehow. How the body is going to remove the excess zinc? Basically, I want to know that the zinc after trapping all the iron is not going to lodge itself onto the liver because there is too much of it and it cannot be removed all at once. If you can find answer to that, it would be great. And thank you.
I had my blood test done today, so we'll see what it says. Giving blood is good, maybe I should just go and start donating blood myself if nothing comes out from my blood work? I would go weekly and help myself by removing the excess iron through plebothomy. That will work but I have to research now if I could qualify. I would load myself with zinc, and all other chelators and the next day I would go and give blood. But knowing that I have iron overload would it be ethical to do so? Should I pick my life over somebody else's?
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:49 am

it's good to have hepatic zinc stores topped up. zinc is required for a whole bunch of processes that happen in the liver. and zinc can repair liver damage - there is a study out there showing how it reverses liver cirrhosis. and you're much more likely to have too little zinc than too much. and there are always blood tests to keep an eye on things.

i'll be interested to see the results of your bloodwork - what is being tested all in all?

zinc chelation does not require phlebotomy to prevent iron accumulation in the liver. probably would be better to wash out all treatments prior to any donation. wait and see what the lab tests show, should help resolve questions.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 18, 2013 8:09 pm

I took some zinc today after lunch and I've been peeing a lot. Maybe it's working already. I would like to take Milk Thistle it is very good for liver and helps prevent cirrhosis so I can't wait to try it but I am dying to know what the tests will show. My doctor didn't say what tests she ordered, I just told her I suspect I have iron overload. But I remember that I had CAT scan in 2008 and my doctor said I had a spot on my liver. She said to not to worry, it happens sometimes. Then in 2010 I had another CT scan and the technician told me that I indeed have a couple of spots on my liver. But when I asked my doctor about it, she said everything is fine. Now, I am not so sure. I think I will have to get copies for myself and check it out just in case.
My daughter is doing great. Whatever we are doing now is working. She is happy and I think she is doing better now than before diagnosis. So, lets keep our fingers crossed it stays that way.
You've mentioned cereal as a good choice of non heme iron, let's not forget that non heme iron is currently attached to our livers and other organs and cereals have tons of Mr. Nasty in them to the tune of 90% of your daily iron requirement. This is why we are trying to block it now to prevent our deaths. I even bought distilled water to lower the iron intake. Our bodies absorb too much iron. Some of the iron will be absorbed no matter what we do, but we don't want too much of it absorbed so for now low iron diets are much better. But my daughter will need MRI, this is the only way to see for sure the damage inside. Is it possible to have MRI done without doctor's order? If I wanted to do it privately? Because the lab tests can only be done with doctor's order. I can't believe that I cannot just walk to a lab and get tested for whatever I feel like it.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:32 pm

glad you have tests on the way and that your daughter is dong well.

please re-read my post above.. I posted some info from a web site that mentioned cereal as a good non heme iron choice. I preceded and followed their info with my critique. I added more quote tags to their text, to clarify further

not sure about the mri.. even the time I did go to the states to pay for one privately rather than wait for the local option, my local doc still wrote up my requisition for the us provider.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:07 am

The MRI is only to assess the damage and see how much of that iron is in the body. Biopsy would probably be also good but MRI is less dangerous.
I got a call from the hospital saying that my daughter has bladder infection. So I called my medical group because they still haven't approved the request to see a podiatrist and they told me they are waiting for my daughter's medical records. I, of course don't understand how can they do that, the child has anemia, MS, toenail infection and now bladder infection and they are playing games. They are so irresponsible but I think they are doing this so we don't come to them next year. They are doing this on purpose but I know how to fix it. I am going to do it later today.
Well, here is another of my discoveries. I’ve noticed that at night when I am sleeping I have some itching in my back and little in abdomen. I know it’s iron causing this. I don’t know if you remember but I was saying that when I sit on the couch with my back touching it, I feel discomfort and my blood pressure goes up? Why the discomfort? Because my body is removing the excess iron and when I cover a big chunk of my skin which is the biggest organ then what I feel is the burning iron trapped in the skin of my back not able to be removed.
The same goes for my daughter. When she lies in bed 3 days in a row she is blocking her skin and the iron removal process and therefore the iron is being pushed into another place. Remember she has optic neuritis? It happened after she was in the pool. I thought it was diving but I was wrong. When you are in the pool your head is the only thing exposed. If it’s hot outside then you sweat and that’s the only area for the excess iron to leave the body.
Same goes for bathing in a bathtub. When you submerged, the only thing available for the iron is your head and that’s where it’s going to go. And that’s how you get MS. In the shower I only wet half of my body and have the other half open so the iron is leaving through the other side. But my daughter runs the water in such a way that her entire body is covered with water and the only thing exposed is her head. And she stays in the shower ½ hour and that’s what’s creating the sweat and danger zone in her brain. This is why sauna is good for iron removal from the skin, because your entire skin is exposed and you are sweating and removing the poison. How to deal with this that’s another story.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:17 am

chronic infection and optic neuritis can both indicate poor zinc status.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:58 pm

The health group approved visit to the podiatrist for my daughter but he is very busy and the first available appointment is next week but they put us on waiting list if anyone cancels, we get in. And I didn’t have to get involved to get it done. Which is good because me and my family should be treated like royalty, extremely valuable customers because we will cost them nothing comparing to others. :arrow: As you could see not only I was able to find the cause of MS but now I know how to beat it. Oh, this is great! Very productive day, today!
When we were little and got sick with fever, my grandma would always wet some towel in water mixed with vinegar and kept it on our foreheads. She kept saying that the fever is in the head and this way the vinegar will bring it from the inside to the forehead and then out because fever is very attracted to the vinegar. The rest of the body was supposed to be sweating wet. This was how we were supposed to get over the virus.
So today I was thinking how to get the iron from the brain and outside and we are going to do this using... vinegar. Just like my grandma. We are going to place a towel wet with vinegar over the forehead for a few minutes after hot shower, wash it off and apply some lotion. The forehead may burn but it’s better than having the brain burned. That vinegar is going to attract the iron (currently attached to the myelin) to the forehead and the skin will carry it out with sweat.
How are we going to remove it from inside of our bodies? For this we are going to use good old vitamin C. Vitamin C attracts iron so much so that last time I took vitamin C my kidneys were on fire. That’s because they were trapping a lot of iron and carrying it out. To not to compromise the iron absorption we have to use vitamin C early in the morning before breakfast otherwise we would get the opposite. I propose Saturday morning. After that we’ll drink water and tea and remove as much iron as we can. That will be our personal chelation treatment. After a couple of hours we can have some breakfast and calcium to block any more absorption. In the beginning the kidneys may be overworked so go easy on the treatment but later we may be able to do it more often but for now slow and steady will get the work done without even leaving the house or major side effects.
And this is how we are going to cure MS and this is how we are going to keep it under control. Not only safely but cheaply.
I was at the store today and found some cereals that are very low in iron. Kellogs Honey Smacks – 2% of iron in one cup, General Mills Honey Nut Cherrios – 25% and Shredded Wheat – 8%. I mixed them up and ate them for lunch and they tasted grrrrrreat and sweet. The milk will block some of the iron from going in, but I had some black tea afterwards just to make sure the iron stays on the outside instead of inside. This is work in progress so I don’t want too much of it on the inside.
I predict that after one year we won’t recognize ourselves. Make sure you have all your supplies ready. :lol:
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:39 pm

glad to hear your girl is headed to the doc

with your proposed plan I forsee higher iron absorption via vit C, not excretion

and more zinc depletion from the sweet cereals you mention

sounds like a good way to exacerbate the existing imbalanced iron zinc dynamic
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:58 pm

Vitamin C is a water-soluble vitamin, meaning your system only soaks up what it needs and then flushes out any extra. Vitamin C reaches its peak concentration in the blood within about 2 hours and passes from the body within three to four hours. Even though vitamin C increases the bioavailability of iron in the diet it is also improving chelation in people with iron overload. So you take the vitamin on empty stomach then have a coffee and some chicken and wait. After 4 hours you can have breakfast. It cannot help with non heme iron absorption if you don’t eat non heme iron while taking the vitamin c. It flushes your body carrying out some of the iron from your cells. I am doing it tomorrow morning and I’ll start my daughter with lower dose and increase the amount based on her tolerance. Next week she is not going to school so we can do a mini toxic flush every day.
Hemochromatosis is very common in Irish but not in Italians who eat a lot of tomato sauce which is vitamin C so definitely incorporating the vitamin c in this process is very important because the chelating treatment is similar to what I am proposing. After a month we should see some improvement.
And in between, we’ll continue to do what we were doing, blocking extra iron from entering the body and healing the body with zinc.
And don’t forget the vinegar. You can just put the towel on your forehead or just heat water, pour some vinegar in the water and into glass bowl, cover your head with towel and steam the entire face. Mini sauna to suck up the iron from your brain. Operation FFR ( Freedom From Rust) starts now!
And one more information. I have a Maltese dog that had under eye stains and some lady told me to give her a slice of tomato each day. I did, and eventually the stains went away. I give her the tomato around noon approximately 4 hours after breakfast and 4 hours before dinner and the rust went away. Maybe she also had too much iron. If it’s working for the dog it should work for us too.
And by the way, we only eat cereals once every 7-10 days. Instead of cookies.
Now I am going to get my beauty rest and tomorrow experimenting early on with vitamin C chelation.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:11 am

make sure to do regular tests of serum ferritin and zinc to make sure your plans are playing out the way you envision...
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:51 pm

Well, I am alive. I took 1000 mg of vit. C this morning and nothing happened. I think my body sucked it all up because I was deficient but I will not be increasing it. I am going to continue with this program until the end of the next week and see how am I doing.
I really feel great, in the morning I had black coffee and 2 pieces of chicken jerky that I make for us for snacking and I wasn’t hungry at all. Because I wasn’t hungry I had my breakfast 4 ½ hours after taking the vit. C. This time was coffee with creamer and a piece of baguette with cream cheese. 7 hours later I feel great and now I am drinking black coffee and having small lunch, salmon with salad and another slice of baguette. Total for both meals: 20% of my daily intake of iron assuming 100% absorption. If the absorption is only 30% I just consumed 6 % of iron today. I am definitely deficient in iron and I love it!!! I am sure after only one month I am going to feel like new. It’s just not possible to have any more iron left in my body with this kind of deficiency. The itch in my back is gone now.
As you can see there is nothing to worry about. Tonight we’ll have vinegar facial to get the iron from the myelin and pull it all toward the forehead. We’ll be doing it every night so there is nothing left in there. No iron in the brain = no danger = no ms = no neurological damage = better life.
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