Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:12 am

hey there :) speaking of the liver, had you already seen this article? not a study per se, but lots of info

Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease: predisposing factors and the role of nutrition
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 6306002737
More than 20% of Americans have nonalcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD), and this is, by far, the leading cause of abnormal liver enzymes in the United States. ... These liver diseases represent the hepatic component of the metabolic syndrome, and this spectrum of liver disease represents a major health problem both in the United States and worldwide. Hepatic steatosis is closely linked to nutrition, including obesity, possibly high-fructose corn syrup consumption and consumption of certain types of fats. ... optimal therapy for NAFLD appears to include lifestyle modification with exercise, diet and weight loss. Certain nutrients may also be of benefit. Important areas for future research are the effect(s) of nutritional supplements on NAFLD/NASH and the effects of industrial toxins.

as far as essential nutrients are concerned, vitamin E and zinc are included in the detailed discussion section of this article. there is a specific subsection on nutrient status influences on the liver's capacity for detoxification.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Bender » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:53 pm

This is kind of out of left field but bringing up the eye changes I wanted to mention that I'd recently came across information on Heterochromia which I have/am of the eye color of/etc... my eyes changed around 7 or 8, and given the potential neurological causes for Heterochromia I thought it was worth mentioning out there and putting in people's heads to consider.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:47 pm

Thanks Jimmy, I am glad you’re back. I am going to do blood test next week, but so far the tests have not shown anything. I am also going to look into a metabolic syndrome. Same with my daughter, she is going to have her test done next week so we’ll see. I’ll let you know.
After talking to my older sister I think we had a case of MS in my family, my great-grandma had it. She spent 20 years in bed with some neurological problem, we are thinking this could have been MS. So it striked again 4 generations later. We analyzed the foods my great-grandma was eating and we narrowed it to: fructose, regular sugars, definitely breads, eggs, meats: chicken, lots of pork some rabbits, little fish, milk and milk products and smoked foods like sausages, hams, etc... One thing we could easily eliminate was beef. So beef doesn’t cause MS. We know sugar is bad but what about pork? Have anyone tried pork free diet?
My daughter went trick-or- treating and the next day she started having some sinus problem. At first I thought she just got cold, then maybe the candies she ate bother her, maybe the sugar is the problem but today I realized we had pork for dinner on Thursday. I also remember she wasn’t eating pork until she was maybe 7 years old and even then only pork chops which we ate maybe once every 3 months and ham once a year. The increase of pork meat in her diet actually took place at around age 11-12 when I started forcing her to eat more meat. Could pork be the problem? I am going to stop giving my daughter pork including all smoked stuff like hams and sausages because there is too much of a coincidence here. I’ll let you know how she is doing.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:08 pm

Hi Bender,
My daughter doesn't have Heterochromia. Her eye color was always the same. She still needs to be examined by opthamologist but I don't know when that's gonna happen. I have to call and make an appointment, I am hoping the referrals are finally in order. The MRI is not showing any damage in that area so whatever is happening it must be inside the nerve. But thanks anyway.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:19 am

Attention:
My daughter is having a relapse. Do not eat pork meat and sugar. She had some pork on Thursday, two Halloween candies and then she developed a sinus infection. Like a mild cold. Even though I've been giving her extra vitamins for the past few days, this morning she woke up unsteady on her legs. Besides 2 fruits/day and last night a small cup of Snapple she didn't have any added sugar. I am going to analyze everything else she ate but these two are definitely at play. Take care.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:27 am

heya celeste, sorry to hear your daughter is doing poorly.

i will be very interested to see if your daughter's zinc level has improved compared to her low-normal result [83 ug/dl]from earlier in this topic.

FYI 'normal' range for zinc is 75-121; this is quite disastrously broad.

average zinc levels in ms patients range from 68-88 depending which study you look at.

meanwhile healthy controls tend to have serum zinc levels well up in the high-normal range eg 118)
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 10:14 am

I’ve been giving her zinc for the past couple of days because when she gets sick with any sinus I always give her extra vitamins: vit.D3 from regular 4000IU/day to 8000IU/day, extra calcium, extra fish oil, vitamin E, magnesium and zinc. I have no idea what her zinc level is now because none of the doctors want to order the test. The neurologist is only interested in vit. D and her primary doesn’t want to have anything to do with her unless I can show some proof that she may be deficient in some minerals/vitamins. We have HMO and we have a lot of problems with this. Both doctors don’t want to cooperate with each other, instead I have to organize everything. Did I mention we have not seen opthamologist in 4 months because the doctor didn’t take care of this? And when I call, I can only leave message and then wait for weeks, sometimes someone calls me back and sometimes I have to call back and wait again, and then they call back and give me wrong information and this is how it’s been.
Where can I do the tests privately, do I have to get doctor’s prescription?
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:07 am

Here is more about pork.
I have a journal of my daughter’s foods/activities/illnesses, for example, I don’t write “milk” because we drink almond milk all the time so there is no need to write this down. I write all sugars, fructose in excess of 2 fruits per day, meats, if she eats too many carbs, etc... And last week we had pork again-soup with some pork meat in it and it shows that the following day my daughter got some sinus issue. It lasted only half a day and now this. I am sure pork somehow is involved with the sinuses.
Here is where it becomes tricky. Last week she didn’t have any sugar or any sweet drinks, excess fructose but before she got the sinus she spent 20 hours in bed just lying and doing nothing. This time she had little sugar on Halloween, just two candies, pork for dinner on Halloween and some cold pork with sandwich for lunch on Friday, then on Friday evening she had sinus problem. That Friday after school she spent the entire afternoon/evening in bed doing nothing. The entire weekend she didn’t go anywhere except for 2 hours to the mall with friends and they had Pepperoni pizza. Anyway, the activity or luck of it maybe very important here.
I used to have similar thing with my blood pressure. Always in the evening, and always after prolonged sitting and pressing my back onto a pillow or couch, or early in the morning after hours of sleeping. I could always feel discomfort in my lower back prior to it, and all that lasted few days. The bp medicine was of no help during that time. If I was sitting long time without pressing the back, my blood pressure was okay, the pressing was always causing the blood pressure to rise. I didn't have sinus problem but I didn't feel well either. Otherwise my blood pressure was under control. I had 3 different doctors and none of them could explain it. It is very possible that my blood pressure rises after eating pork meat. I think I am going to check on this.
The meat can cause some inflammation, sinus but does it cause MS? What if there is a pressure that causes the lesions, like blood pressure?
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:14 am

just popping in quickly to say I recently posted an alternative DIY zinc test option that you could try. will locate and link you up so that you can take matters into your own hands.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:15 am

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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:26 pm

Thanks Jimmy, I owe you big time! I am going to order it today.
I think I made a mistake with the pork, not sure though. Here is something that is even more important.

My daughter is taking antibiotics for her ingrown toenail. I have checked her records from her prior doctors, there is undisputable history of antibiotics and sinus issues that follow after the antibiotic treatment. It started with antibiotics for her frequent UTI’s and followed up with cough and viral-like symptoms, then H-pylori and more cough during the disease and after treatment with antibiotics, then ingrown toenails and followed up with cough and cold like symptoms after taking antibiotics and the only reason why I couldn’t put this together sooner was because I don’t have the medical records from the current doctor. I checked however from the receipts from various doctors and pharmacy records and every time she had this cold like symptoms, she always took antibiotics prior to that. Before tingling she had another ingrown toenail removed after taking antibiotics but that was 2 months prior. And optic neuritis? She had UTI prior to that and took antibiotics. But that was weeks before optic neuritis. Immediately before optic neuritis she had allergy and took a lot of Zyrtec though. It’s the antibiotics. She started taking antibiotics on Oct. 24th and on 26 she had a sinus, took Zyrtec and last weekend she had again viral infection but I am not sure about Zyrtec.
The antibiotics remove the protective bacteria and this is how MS happens. Whatever is there that causes it is free to do whatever it is doing. And I gave her another antibiotic this morning. God help me! But Zyrtec cannot be ignored because all the time she had these problems she also took allergy medicines, different ones throughout those years. I think she took Zyrtec on Friday as well. So, only because there was no allergy medicine in the 1800’s I think the antibiotics are behind MS. The allergy meds maybe contributing to the problem. Don’t trust them, don’t take them.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:42 pm

I would look for the systemic underlying immune situation ie reason for the chronic infections that appear to be triggering the repeat abx prescriptions. I think the sinus issues, allergies, etc are comorbidities stemming from the same underlying problem. I also strongly suspect that it would be highly beneficial to put that zinc evaluation on the front burner. glad you're ordering the stuff needed for the DIY test :) remember how well she did with the oysters? I think that was telling.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:59 pm

Celeste485 wrote:Here is more about pork.
I have a journal of my daughter’s foods/activities/illnesses, for example, I don’t write “milk” because we drink almond milk all the time so there is no need to write this down. I write all sugars, fructose in excess of 2 fruits per day, meats, if she eats too many carbs, etc... And last week we had pork again-soup with some pork meat in it and it shows that the following day my daughter got some sinus issue. It lasted only half a day and now this. I am sure pork somehow is involved with the sinuses.
Here is where it becomes tricky. Last week she didn’t have any sugar or any sweet drinks, excess fructose but before she got the sinus she spent 20 hours in bed just lying and doing nothing. This time she had little sugar on Halloween, just two candies, pork for dinner on Halloween and some cold pork with sandwich for lunch on Friday, then on Friday evening she had sinus problem. That Friday after school she spent the entire afternoon/evening in bed doing nothing. The entire weekend she didn’t go anywhere except for 2 hours to the mall with friends and they had Pepperoni pizza. Anyway, the activity or luck of it maybe very important here.
I used to have similar thing with my blood pressure. Always in the evening, and always after prolonged sitting and pressing my back onto a pillow or couch, or early in the morning after hours of sleeping. I could always feel discomfort in my lower back prior to it, and all that lasted few days. The bp medicine was of no help during that time. If I was sitting long time without pressing the back, my blood pressure was okay, the pressing was always causing the blood pressure to rise. I didn't have sinus problem but I didn't feel well either. Otherwise my blood pressure was under control. I had 3 different doctors and none of them could explain it. It is very possible that my blood pressure rises after eating pork meat. I think I am going to check on this.
The meat can cause some inflammation, sinus but does it cause MS? What if there is a pressure that causes the lesions, like blood pressure?


Celeste, for about a two year period I had an allergic reaction to cured pork products – ham, Canadian bacon.

Antibiotics promote the widening of the tight junctions between the cells lining the intestines. These openings allow proteins to enter the bloodstream that are ordinarily excluded. The body mounts an allergic reaction to these proteins. Perhaps this is your daughter's experience – the sinus problem may be an allergic reaction.
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:14 pm

again i'd look beyond the abx to the immune conditions requiring them, where intestinal permeability and tight junctions are concerned..

recall: regimens-f22/topic2489-450.html#p198838

Zinc Supplementation Modifies Tight Junctions and Alters Barrier Function of CACO-2 Human Intestinal Epithelial Layers (2013)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22903217
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Zinc deficiency is known to result in epithelial barrier leak in the GI tract. Precise effects of zinc on epithelial tight junctions (TJs) are only beginning to be described and understood. Along with nutritional regimens like methionine-restriction and compounds such as berberine, quercetin, indole, glutamine and rapamycin, zinc has the potential to function as a TJ modifier and selective enhancer of epithelial barrier function.
AIMS: The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of zinc-supplementation on the TJs of a well-studied in vitro GI model, CACO-2 cells.
METHODS: Barrier function was assessed electrophysiologically by measuring transepithelial electrical resistance (R(t)), and radiochemically, by measuring transepithelial (paracellular) diffusion of (14)C-D-mannitol and (14)C-polyethyleneglycol. TJ composition was studied by Western immunoblot analyses of occludin, tricellulin and claudins-1 to -5 and -7.
RESULTS: Fifty- and 100-μM zinc concentrations (control medium is 2 μM) significantly increase R(t) but simultaneously increase paracellular leak to D-mannitol. Claudins 2 and 7 are downregulated in total cell lysates, while occludin, tricellulin and claudins-1, -3, -4 and -5 are unchanged. Claudins-2 and -7 as well as tricellulin exhibit decreased cytosolic content as a result of zinc supplementation.
CONCLUSIONS: Zinc alters CACO-2 TJ composition and modifies TJ barrier function selectively. Zinc is one of a growing number of "nutraceutical" substances capable of enhancing epithelial barrier function, and may find use in countering TJ leakiness induced in various disease states.


related discussion
nov 2011 general discussion general-discussion-f1/topic18514-15.html#p181311
feb 2012 natural approach natural-approach-f27/topic18577-75.html#p186105 (same as nov 11 post but diff context)
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Re: Optic Neuritis and possible cause for MS

Postby Celeste485 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:30 pm

I hope you both are right. My daughter went to school because she wanted. Her doctor said, she needs to have this wobbliness for 24 hours before it can be considered a relapse. But it looks like in school she was okay. The wobbly feeling went away and never came back. But I am taking her to her doctor tomorrow and see if we can do some tests maybe liver function, kidney function, zinc and other minerals.
Zinc level definitely could be low because since my daughter went to school her diet took dive south. Her activity level was low and stress level was high. That’s why I bought the vitamins because I knew she is not getting enough. But later I had no idea how much to give her so I was giving her only twice a week 50mg tablets. When we went to see her doctor she just refused to order the tests. She said there is no reason to believe her zinc, magnesium and other vitamins are low. When I asked her if she had zinc level low when she was hospitalized, she said there was no reason to test zinc at that time and the latest test showed her zinc, magnesium and b12 were normal. She told me to go to the primary. We did go, the primary is afraid of touching my daughter. She told me she is prescribing the antibiotics and unless my daughter shows symptoms of vitamin deficiency she is not going to be involved in this.
So now I am going to visit her and tell her what symptoms she has. This time I will not let go until I get diagnosis as to why my daughter was wobbly. Let them find out.
Thank you Jimmy and thank you lyndacarol because your information is going to help me tremendously. I am going to keep the zinc test I ordered for later use as I have a feeling the doctor will be more cooperative. Thank you both, I hope this really is allergy and nothing more. And my daughter is exercising in her room, I don’t think I will have the need anymore to remind her how important exercise is.
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