all things vitamin D

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Aug 31, 2007 11:44 pm

oo u are a devious AI, my dear bromley!

just to add my two cents, i'm not sure if there's enough research out there to say, one way or the other. but i would hazard a guess that there is probably some kind of vitamin we can take to figure it out. i'll go see if there's any more spare change for supplements under my sofa cushions, then go contemplate it all in a sunbeam somewhere... hey do they even have sunbeams out your way dignanlegs?
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Postby TwistedHelix » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:18 am

I'm afraid you've been rumbled, Bromley: I've discovered that you are in fact a fiendish machine created by wicked British scientists to take over the world. The acronym says it all:


Biological Robot Of Malevolent Leaning: Evil Youth
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Postby bromley » Sat Sep 01, 2007 9:32 am

But the presentation by Prof Ebers was quite interesting wasn't it? Next week he will be answering questions about MS and sunshine on the UK MS Society website.

And as for Dignan and Jimmylegs.... is it so wrong to try to get people together? I celebrated my 20th wedding anniversary last week and don't want others to lose out. I'd place a bet that they have pm'd each other or even spoken on the phone!

Robbie - don't be so angry. Start the abx regime. And get that hair cut and that beard shaved off.

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Postby Lyon » Sat Sep 01, 2007 12:59 pm

We at M16 are dreadfully sorry that our "bromley" software had a slight glitch, which has now been corrected.

The "bromley" program should soon be offering fine English chocolates to those offended.

I think most anyone would have to admit that the George Ebers video the bromley software uncovered was interesting.

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Re: Sunshine / Vit D talk

Postby HarryZ » Sat Sep 01, 2007 5:22 pm

I came across the following presentation by Professor Ebers (a Canadian who has made the sensible decision to move to England).


George Ebers used to work at the MS Clinic at the University of Western Ontario here in London, Canada. He used to be Marg's neuro...very nice man.

He moved to England because he was offered a headship and that was a nice promotion for him at the time. Think he's been there well over 10 years now and you often see his name associated with research projects.

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Postby Muu » Sun Sep 02, 2007 4:22 am

Hi folks,
the latest issue of the MS Matters magazine over here in Blighty included a section by Profs Giovannoni and Ebers where they had examined areas inc Vit D, smoking, diet and the like and their affects on MS. I am an admitted technophobe so have no idea of how to provide a link - (sure that there are others out there that can do so). If not I could do a simple summary.
Muu
ps
have met the dashing Bromers - he's quite real and has moments of appearing fairly sane.
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Postby Lyon » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:13 am

Muu wrote:ps
have met the dashing Bromers - he's quite real and has moments of appearing fairly sane.
Here is the picture of bromley which Muu took Image
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Vit D safety

Postby TwistedHelix » Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:40 am

These results suggest that high levels of vitamin D3 intake are safe and worthy of trial, even though it didn't have any impact on disease progression. I can't help wondering what a huge song and dance the big pharma would have made if this was their product, seeing as how the number of gadolinium enhancing lesions is significantly reduced:

Safety of vitamin D3 in adults with multiple sclerosis.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2007 Sep;86(3):645-51

Authors: Kimball SM, Ursell MR, O'connor P, Vieth R

BACKGROUND: Vitamin D(3) may have therapeutic potential in several diseases, including multiple sclerosis. High doses of vitamin D(3) may be required for therapeutic efficacy, and yet tolerability-in the present context, defined as the serum concentration of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] that does not cause hypercalcemia-remains poorly characterized. OBJECTIVE: The objective of the study was to characterize the calcemic response to specific serum 25(OH)D concentrations. DESIGN: In a 28-wk protocol, 12 patients in an active phase of multiple sclerosis were given 1200 mg elemental Ca/d along with progressively increasing doses of vitamin D(3): from 700 to 7000 mug/wk (from 28 000 to 280 000 IU/wk). RESULTS: Mean (+/- SD) serum concentrations of 25(OH)D initially were 78 +/- 35 nmol/L and rose to 386 +/- 157 nmol/L (P < 0.001). Serum calcium concentrations and the urinary ratio of calcium to creatinine neither increased in mean values nor exceeded reference values for any participant (2.1-2.6 mmol/L and <1.0, respectively). Liver enzymes, serum creatinine, electrolytes, serum protein, and parathyroid hormone did not change according to Bonferroni repeated-measures statistics, although parathyroid hormone did decline significantly according to the paired t test. Disease progression and activity were not affected, but the number of gadolinium-enhancing lesions per patient (assessed with a nuclear magnetic brain scan) decreased from the initial mean of 1.75 to the end-of-study mean of 0.83 (P = 0.03). CONCLUSIONS: Patients' serum 25(OH)D concentrations reached twice the top of the physiologic range without eliciting hypercalcemia or hypercalciuria. The data support the feasibility of pharmacologic doses of vitamin D(3) for clinical research, and they provide objective evidence that vitamin D intake beyond the current upper limit is safe by a large margin.

PMID: 17823429 [PubMed - in process]
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Postby dignan » Sun Sep 09, 2007 4:30 pm

Wow, you're not kidding: p=0.03, greater than 50% reduction in enhancing lesions...sounds like copaxone. I hope they keep pushing these vit D trials along fast.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:59 am

yea given the positive results of this study, hopefully at some point it would be feasible to do with more than 12 people, and for longer than 28 weeks re: disease progression.
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Sunshine/vit D question

Postby lyndacarol » Mon Sep 17, 2007 4:31 pm

After taking large doses of Vitamin D daily for over a year with no changes in MS symptoms, I have to think there is something else at play in the north-south gradient factor. It seems more likely that annual temperature, which allows for fewer colds and viruses to be passed between people, is responsible for the well-recognized difference in geographical prevalence.

Just another of my thoughts.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Sep 17, 2007 5:07 pm

heyas, i don't know if it's supposed to change symptoms, just reduce rate of relapses? don't have time to fish thru the research at the moment, does anyone else remember reading about anything involving D and reduction in EDSS? i don't think i've seen that anywhere.
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Postby MaggieMae » Tue Sep 18, 2007 6:53 am

I believe there is something to the Vitamin D/Sunshine theory. Have any of you read the papers by Dr. Hector DeLuca, Harvard Medical School, and many many others?

My husband's levels were checked and they were very low. The appropriate test is "25(OH)D" not "1,25(OH)D". He is on 2000 to 4000 IU's daily and his levels have barely risen. He has been taking for two years and has his levels checked every six months.

There is research that recommends that higher levels of Vitmain D in expectant mothers can prevent autoimmune diseases in their children.

Also, it is thought that the recommended levels are too low.

Too much to write here about the research.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:47 am

heya maggie, probably have read deluca but don't recall specifically right now. so what was "very low"? my personal thoughts are that 2000 to 4000 are about maintenance, or perhaps gradual accumulation, and getting your baseline up over 100 nmol/L requires much larger doses. the best number i was able to achieve was 150 nmol/L 25(OH)D3, but i didn't keep up the 4000 per day and at last test was back down to 80 nmol/L, a lot closer to where i was at when i started out! i have not been organized enough to get tests every 6 months but that sounds like a wise step for me to take, i'm too sporadic for sure.
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Postby MaggieMae » Tue Sep 18, 2007 10:29 am

Jimmylegs,

The test is for "serum 25 hydroxyvitamin D". We always go to Quest Labs and the report lists his total vitamin D and then gives a breakdown of D3 and D2. Is the test that you are taking only for D3?

Dr. DeLuca is a renowned research in the field of Vitamin D. An abstract of one of his papers: http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/full/15/14/2579

I did read about reduction in EDSS score; that info came from a Dr. Prendergast. He recommends to his patients 50,000iu of D3 daily for a short period of time. Check out this blog: http://d3ms.blogspot.com/

Anothre interesting paper: http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/VitDImmuno ... ntorna.pdf

I don't think that it will reduce my husband's EDSS score, but it may help to keep him from getting worse.
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