all things vitamin D

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:36 pm

just diggin in my files and ran across this photocopy from my nutrition appointment last year (sorry, bad table format):

Study IU/d duration D3 (nmol/L)
1995 Byrne et al: 800 4-6 months 60-105
1995 Byrne et al: 1 800 3 months 65, 80
1990 Honkanen et al: 1 800 3 months 57-86
1977 Stamp et al: 10 000 4 weeks 105
1982 Davies et al: 10 000 10 weeks 110
1977 Stamp et al: 20 000 4 weeks 150
1987 Schwartzman & Franck: 50 000 6 weeks 320
1978 Davies & Adams: 50 000 15 years 560

it keeps going after this and the data is not perfect (e.g. extrapolated for 1977, 1982, 1977; also inconsistency of calcium info) but after 50,000, meh. there was one really extreme one - 300,000IU per day for 6 years, serum d3 1692 nmol/L.

don't have the book's details, but i imagine it's not hard to look up the studies themselves to check up on details
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Vitamin D study from ECTRIMS

Postby dignan » Sat Oct 13, 2007 8:33 am

An abstract about the Canadian vit D study from ECTRIMS. If these results hold up, will they be enough to at least convince the regulators to increase the recommended daily intake of vit D? Probably not...



A phase I dose-escalation trial of vitamin D3 with calcium supplementation in patients with multiple sclerosis

J.M. Burton, S. Kimball, R. Vieth, A. Bar-Or, H.M. Dosch, L. Thibault, S. Kilborn, C. D'Souza, M. Ursell, P. O'Connor (Toronto, Montreal, CAN)

Background: There is good evidence for a relationship between vitamin D nutritional status and development of multiple sclerosis (MS), which could explain the geographic pattern of MS prevalence. A potential mechanism is Vitamin D3’s regulatory effects on the immune system. The evidence suggests Vitamin D3 may benefit MS patients, but first, a safe and effective dose must be determined.

Objective: To characterize the safety profile of high-dose oral vitamin D3 in MS, we conducted a phase I dose-escalation trial with calcium supplementation in MS patients.

Design: In a prospective controlled 52-week trial, patients with clinically definite MS were matched for age, gender, disease duration, Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS) score, Disease Modifying Drugs, and MS subtype, and randomized to treatment or control groups. Treatment group patients received escalating doses of Vitamin D3 starting at 4,000 IU/d and escalating over 28 weeks to 40,000 IU/d, spending approximately 6 weeks at each dose. Patients were then maintained on 10,000 IU/d for 12 weeks, followed by a down-titration to 4,000 IU/d for 8 weeks, and a final 4-week washout period. Calcium (1200mg/d) was given orally throughout the trial. Twenty-five treatment patients and 24 matched controls were enrolled. The primary endpoint is change in serum calcium concentration in the treatment group over the 52-week period. Secondary endpoints are change over the trial in serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25(OH)D), parathyroid hormone, urine calcium:creatinine ratio, liver enzymes and creatinine/urea. Baseline and end-of-trial EDSS, Ambulation Index and relapse rate will be measured in all patients. Serum cytokines, lymphocyte responses and matrix metalloproteinases will be compared over the Vitamin D3 escalation in treatment patients and between treatment and control groups.

Results: At 9 months, 17/25 treatment patients have received 6 weeks of 40,000 IU/d of Vitamin D3 and are now in the 10,000 IU/d maintenance phase. There is no significant difference between groups in age, disease duration, relapse rate, prior Vitamin D3 dose, baseline serum calcium or 25(OH)D. Serum calcium has remained in the reference range (2.2-2.6mmol/L), with no significant differences over escalating doses. Mean 25(OH)D increased from 73.5 +/- 26.4mmo/L at baseline to 402.1 +/- 123.0 mmol/L at 40,000 IU/d (p<0.001).

Conclusions: The results thus far suggest high-dose Vitamin D is safe and tolerable in MS patients.

ECTRIMS link
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:13 am

g1 diggy. i wish there were lots of studies like this for many more nutrients!

i'm assuming mmol is a typo (and 'mmo/L' for that matter)... someone back me up? do i hear nmol? anyone?
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Postby dignan » Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:18 pm

Bueller? Bueller? Yes legs, I think you're right about nmol.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:30 pm

:D
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Postby Frank » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:11 am

Is there a reason why they give Calcium together with the Vit D3?
Does one need more Calcium when supplementing Vit D3?

Thanks
--Frank
Treatment: Gilenya since 01/2011, CCSVI both IJV ballooned 09/2010, Tysabri stopped after 24 Infusions and positive JCV antibody test, after LDN, ABX Wheldon Regime for 1 year.
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Postby jimmylegs » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:22 am

hi frank, D3 needs calcium to work with. it's counter-intuitive, but you take the calcium to keep your blood calcium down while you take vitamin D.

my understanding is, that a finding of hypercalcemia indicates that high D3 is pulling calcium from the bones into the serum.

the study above helps allay this concern by demonstrating that very high doses of D3 (accompanied by daily calcium supplementation) failed to induce hypercalcemia. it's very useful to know that 1200mg of calcium can keep even such high doses of D3 from elevating serum calcium.

i have a chart of vitamin D3 studies from the 80s, showing that 50,000IU/d of vitamin D3 for 6 weeks took the serum calcium well outside the top end of the reference range.
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Basal Cell Carcinoma and Vitamin D?

Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:19 pm

Welp,
here's a puzzle for the vitamin D/sunshine folks. My active, outdoorsy Californian husband, dx with MS 3/07, saw a dermatologist and had three spots of basal cell carcinoma removed from his face and abdomen. He got alot of sunshine as a kid, and burns easily since he is very fair and freckled. Looks like he got too much sunshine...on his skin.

He's fine, the basal cell areas were surgically removed (ouch), and because he got prompt treatment, he should be OK.

My husband has had optic nerve drusen (fatty deposits) since childhood. He has no peripheral vision and very bad night vision. Perhaps his level of vitamin D was affected by the sunlight taken in through the eye, and not just the skin. Maybe his drusen blocked those all important light rays from hitting the retina.

So here's my thought...perhaps it's also the amount of sun which reaches the brain thru the eye via melanopsin (a light detecting protein in the eye), that can affect vitamin D levels.

I know, I'm wandering...but I still think sunshine/vitamin D/the pineal gland and melatonin are in the MS equation.

enough rambling,
AC
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:32 pm

oh, yeah...
and how about this in the news today?

Overnight shift to be classified as probable cancer cause....

http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/11/29/ni ... index.html

more with sunshine/melatonin/health....

ok, I'm done
ac
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:37 am

how's your hubby's serum retinol?
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:43 am

Hey Jimmy...

Knew you'd come thru! I was really grasping last night....I've never spent so much time in drs. offices until this year. There's so much going on at once- my husband jokes he is now an "official science fair project."

Serum retinol- that's vitamin A levels, right? We have some blood work coming up (for liver function) I'll ask the doc if she can test some vitamin levels, as well. He's on a bunch'o antioxidants and supplements.

in the mean time, everyone- keep wearing sun screen.
best,
AC
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:49 pm

lol! i think we all feel a bit like some kind of odd experiment! perhaps ask about his zinc level too? if it's too low it could mess up utilization of retinol.
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Study questions Vit D intake

Postby Frank » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:05 am

Treatment: Gilenya since 01/2011, CCSVI both IJV ballooned 09/2010, Tysabri stopped after 24 Infusions and positive JCV antibody test, after LDN, ABX Wheldon Regime for 1 year.
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Postby CureOrBust » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:21 am

The article makes references to a Trevor Marshall. I would say he is the originator of the marshal protocol. There are many sites that place his theories in strong doubt. From memory, his Ph'D is not within medicine.
Trevor Marshall received his PhD in Electrical Engineering from the University of Western Australia in 1984
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Marshall
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Postby Loriyas » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:31 am

For what it is worth--
My physician at Vanderbilt recommends 5000 IU of vitamin D daily. Looks like differing opinions.
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