This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

[jimmylegs]

from page 7 of "mega D" under "regimens":

CureOrBust
Family Elder
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:50 pm

Quote:
Vitamin D deficiency, long interpreted as a cause of disease, is more likely the result of the disease process, and increasing intake of vitamin D often makes the disease worse. "Dysregulation of vitamin D has been observed in many chronic diseases, including many thought to be autoimmune," said J.C. Waterhouse, Ph.D., lead author of a book chapter on vitamin D and chronic disease (2). "We have found that vitamin D supplementation, even at levels many consider desirable, interferes with recovery in these patients."
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/94642.php

Although, the name "Marshal" (in other parts of the article) is worth a second check...

and I just did. Trevor Marshal is the same name as the guy pushin the Marshal Protocol. Apply salt liberally.

CureOrBust
Family Elder
Joined: Jul 28, 2005
Posts: 956
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:57 pm

Vitamin D2 Is As Effective As Vitamin D3 In Maintaining Concentrations Of 25-Hydroxyvitamin D
Quote:
Researchers from Boston University School of Medicine (BUSM) have found that vitamin D2 is equally as effective as vitamin D3 in maintaining 25-hydroxyvitamin D status. The study appears online in the December 2007 issue of the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/92952.php

jimmylegs
Family Elder
Joined: Mar 12, 2006
Posts: 1121
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:57 am

an interesting set of contradictions, but that's what the process is about

would be a good idea to compare the methodologies out there that evaluate efficacy of D2 and D3 and arrive at opposite conclusions.

re: the disease process, i've heard that concept voiced regarding uric acid too, that levels are down as a result of the disease process. now i think it is a pretty ridiculous assertion when you talk about something like vitamin D, which clearly varies with sun exposure regardless of disease, and which is clearly supplemented through natural dietary ingestion, never mind pills. again, i'd be interested to see the methodologies that arrive at opposite results. and which form of ingested D was used when negative impacts were noted. without having seen specific research, i'm relatively confident that ingested D is pretty damned useful in the arctic.

Quote:
Supplemental vitamin D has been used for decades, and yet the epidemics of chronic disease, such as heart disease and obesity, are just getting worse

i'd suggest that could be because the supplementation amounts to date have merely been aimed at prevention of rickets, and have not been implemented in sufficient levels to deal with other chronic diseases.

at first glance, these articles appear to be pretty good at leaving out some inconvenient portions of the picture![/i]

[cheerleader]

If it looks like a duck...
This guy lives down the 101 from me in so cal. Not sure how he can teach in Australia. That's some commute!! He's a mechanical engineer, lots of stuff about antennae and synthesizers on his site-
Here's his website.

http://trevormarshall.com

My husband is a California boy, born and raised in sunshine. Has the basal cells to prove it! Yet his MS and low serum vit. D point to some disregulation in his processing of Vit. D. He uses a sun lamp in his office and takes supplemental vit. D-3 (neuro recommended) and will continue to do so....
AC

[jimmylegs]

bizarre!

interesting that your hubby has low d in spite of living in cali and having an indoor light and taking supplements.

what is his total current daily equivalent intake from all sources? what is his seasonal range of serum 25-hydroxyvitaminD3 levels?

[jimmylegs]

also what goes in to make sure the body has what it needs to absorb the d3 intake? i added some questions to the regimen thread related to this

[cheerleader]

Hey Jimmylegs-
I should clarify, sorry! Hubby had low levels at presentation, but he's at normal high levels now. He had malabsorption issues, mild steatorrhea, high liver enzymes and was really toxic at first flare. His GP tested everything, and was very thorough. (Neuro said this wasn't related to MS, but I disagree.) We got him on a probiotic, cut out artificial sweeteners (he was addicted to diet sodas) and got him on a whole food/organic diet without dairy. Did a liver cleanse, and the enzymes resolved themselves in a month. Bowels became normal in a few months.

The vitamin issues have resolved over the course of a year. Our GP keeps testing his serum levels for vitamins, enzymes and hormones. I love her! His B12, D, uric acid are all high normal now, so he's on a maintenance of 2,000 iu vit. D. I'm not sure what his total intake levels of D-3 are, but he's absorbing vitamins now, and we've healed his gastric issues.

I think these gastro problems relate to his MS directly, although our neuro disagrees. She has remarked that he is doing quite well, however-
hope this helps,
AC

[jimmylegs]

excellent news cheer. does the GP test for minerals at all?

[Jim_P]

I got on a Vitamin D kick for a while, thinking it would make me feel good. All that happened when I took high levels of D was, my hands remembered how numb they were on my last flare up. Thus, I dropped high levels of D and now only get a regular amount.

No vitamin ever made any difference in me that I noticed.

I'm sticking to my NAG, Chondroitin and Acetyl-Carnitine for now.
I'm feeling good more than feeling bad and that's good enough for me.

[Frank]

The researchers state that vitamin D supports a T-cell shift towards an anti-inflamatory profile and enhance regulatory T-cell functionality:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18177949

--Frank

[jimmylegs]

it's true you need to be careful about which vitamins you take, in what doses, with which other supplements present. personally, i've been in the habit of reading, forming hypotheses about deficiency based on my diet and lifestyle, then testing levels and either finding or not finding a problem, and where there is a problem i undertake steps to correct the deficiency. sometimes when the lab result indicates no problem, further investigation in the literature has demonstrated that the lab is somewhat off and that "normal" ranges are certainly not "optimal" ranges.

sometimes i have tried supplements based only on symptoms and have been rewarded with radical improvement in under a week. other times it takes me longer to nail down the right blend to resolve a symptom. i still haven't fixed my carpal tunnel syndrome, but it does seem to be a little better these days, in terms of the numbness being there, but not as much of the swollen stiff feeling. i'm not hitting it particularly hard with anything right now though.

with vitamin d in particular you do need to be careful to take things in conjunction with it and if you don't, you can deplete needed minerals in the d absorption process. i suspect that my recent problems that were resolved with magnesium supplementation could have been due to an imbalance in the ratio of calcium and magnesium to my daily d3 intake. i haven't been able to find good research on balancing mg and d3 dosage yet.

[jimmylegs]

and i have not seen any research to my recollection that talks about vitamin d reversing nerve damage, just that it affects the immune system and has been shown to reduce relapse frequency. i don't have time to go back over the literature but i don't imagine the assessment methodology is much different from tests on pharmaceuticals and relapse rates. i'm still quite happy to aim for a serum level of 150 and i know my tendency is more in the 70s, even when supplementing. i have to supplement a HUGE amount to get up to 150 and have never felt any ill effects.

[jimmylegs]

and by ill effects i mean in the short term. as previously mentioned, i am suspicious that some of my more recent issues were resolved with magnesium pills, after long term (almost 2 years) supplementation with thousands of units of d per day, including the initial booster of 50,000 per day for 10 days.

[NHE]

I recently posted on this topic in another thread. It might be relevant to the present discussion.

NHE

[gwa]

NHE,

I assume that you posted the wrong link. If not, what does the link have to do with Vit D?

gwa

[SarahLonglands]

Maybe NHE has been highjacked since this thread which was supposed to recently posted is dated only today.

Apart from this, "Dr. Marshall", who has a doctorate in chemical engineering, from before he moved to California and cured himself from sarcoidosis, should bear in mind that in the nineteenth century, some children used to suffer greatly from rickets, now unknown in the civilised world. This was caused by never seeing daylight, never mind sunlight, from one year to the next. They were the mill workers and young lads sent up chimneys and down the mines. They suffered from a severe vitamin D deficiency for this reason.

Also, before the introduction of the first antibiotics, people with TB who were sent to the big TB sanatoriua, were wheeled out of doors in rthe summer and left in the sun. Many of them were cured from the disease.

This is a good link:
http://www.canceractive.com/page.php?n=344#8

Sarah

[cheerleader]

Terrific link, Sarah...
interesting to read that vitamin D acts more like a hormone, and its synergy with vit. A and E.

The only time my sunny Californian husband's vitamin D levels were compromised was at the time of his MS diagnosis last year. He was very sick.... jaundiced, numb, toxic and had very high liver enzymes. Since we've healed his gastric and liver issues, he is absorbing and utilizing vitamins again, as shown by recent serum level testing. I think toxic overload and bacteria were hampering his absorption. Haven't had mineral levels tested, Jimmylegs.


From Sarah's link-

Sunlight on our skin is now thought to be the main 'source' of vitamin D. Whilst a little is found in dairy, the major source is fish liver oils and particularly cod liver oil. Plants contain very little vitamin D. Kidney or liver disease (and alcohol) depress vitamin D levels, as do cholesterol-lowering drugs (e.g. statins), mineral oils, anticonvulsants and toxic chemicals in the environment (e.g. smog). Cadmium blocks vitamin D production whilst pantothenic acid helps make it. Night shift workers have lowered blood levels of vitamin D. Heavily tanned, or black people cannot make vitamin D through the process of sunlight in their skin.

interesting,
AC