all things vitamin D

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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:23 am

shady you came in after the units discussion was on a previous page - but as has been pointed out we need to include units! lol! i'm going to guess that yours are in nmol/L? what have you decided will need to be your minimum value? if you have not already read it, one study found that the studied group with the highest d3 level had the lowest ms risk. their values were 100nmol/L ahd higher.
it's a good idea to take calcium, magnesium, and zinc along with your d3... and some of the magnesium separately, at bedtime is especially good.
JL
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:38 am

shayk i did not go for the full text, but i liked that someone actually published that under 100 nmol/L is insufficient!! haven't seen that number and that word together in a published article before.
The average 25(OH)D level was 71 ± 39 nmol/L (Mean ± SD), and 167(84%) patients had insufficient levels (≤100 nmol/L) of 25(OH)D.

it's interesting to me that when i started investigating my d3, my level was 72 - close to another 'ms average' if you will, like my uric acid was.
when i talked to the hospital in early 06 about getting my level up, they said the protocol they were giving me was used for people that were seriously deficient, to get them UP to the level i was currently at. i am very glad that that thinking seems to be evolving.
now as to this d3 d2 thing, i think it's already pretty well established that d3 is the more appropriate and effective, that low doses of either form don't do much, and that high doses of either would be more beneficial. also that 4000IU per day is likely what's needed per the literature, and health canada only recently bumped the recommendation from 200IU/d to 2000IU/d (at least they're meeting the science halfway), so studying the effects of 800IU/d seems pretty ludicrous to me.
from past studies i would suspect that high dose d3 gets the job done in a shorter time than d2, and in a more biologically appropriate way.
thoughts/comments?
JL
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Postby mommasan » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:08 am

Hi Jimmy- Last creatinine was .7. I believe when it gets to 2.0 you've lost 50% of renal function. Haven't had a microalbuminuria in a while. They took about 8 or nine tubes of blood this morning, including PTH.

In hindsight, I think the statement that I get no sunlight was an overstatement. I get about 10-15 minute exposure to hands and face 2X per day 5 days a week- sometimes more, waiting for my daughters preschool bus to pick her up and drop her off- except when it dropped into the single digits when no skin could be exposed. Also, I take fish oil which probably adds a bit of uncalculated vit. D- so maybe that clouds things up a bit.

Thanks again for your amazing help. I will keep you informed when the tests come back.

Yeah, I need another DEXA- though I am not quite ready to deal with the potential results just yet.

Sandy
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:46 am

hey there, no probs, i'll keep an eye out :)
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Vitamin D and Neuroprotection

Postby Shayk » Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:21 pm

JL
from past studies i would suspect that high dose d3 gets the job done in a shorter time than d2, and in a more biologically appropriate way. thoughts/comments?

I basically agree but we might think just a tad differently about "why" and the job that needs to be done. MS and Vitamin D research seems to have focused solely on its impact on the "immune" system. D3 actually has neuroprotective properties that could be quite relevant to the MS disease process. Why MS researchers remain silent on the neuroprotective angle of D3 baffles me. Per this.....
Combination treatment with progesterone and vitamin d hormone may be more effective than monotherapy for nervous system injury and disease
Emerging data on 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D(3) (VDH), itself a steroid hormone, have begun to provide evidence that, like PROG, it too is neuroprotective, although some of its actions may involve different pathways. Both agents have high safety profiles, act on many different injury and pathological mechanisms, and are clinically relevant, easy to administer, and inexpensive....

Furthermore, vitamin D deficiency is prevalent in a large segment of the population, especially the elderly and institutionalized, and can significantly affect recovery after CNS injury

The beat goes on...thanks for your take on the info.

Sharon
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 28, 2009 8:33 pm

hi s - ah, i thought given the abstract, that you were just questioning the d2 vs d3 angle of the article - apparently i did not read it closely enough to pick up on the immune vs neuro angle!

personally, having the d3 issue go beyond rickets and osteoporosis is pleasin to me, right now... we'll have see about immune system (vs/combined-with) neuropathyaspect, down the road :) hopefully it will not take another few decades.. eek!

JL
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Vit D and Omega-3 to be tested in big trial

Postby Frank » Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:48 am

The trial will enrole 20.000 people and evaluate the supplements (2000 iu Vit D and/or 1g fish oil, vs placebo) for their potential preventative effect on cancer, heart dissease and stroke:
http://www.physorg.com/news164898427.html

--Frank
Treatment: Gilenya since 01/2011, CCSVI both IJV ballooned 09/2010, Tysabri stopped after 24 Infusions and positive JCV antibody test, after LDN, ABX Wheldon Regime for 1 year.
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Multiple Sources of D3?

Postby bibliotekaren » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:46 pm

As a newbie, I sifted through the various threads on Vitamin D. I have a naive question based on an anecdotal reference (my dad told me his pal with MS told him his doc said...).

So, my Dad's friend with MS swears by taking at least three different sources of D as recommended by his doc. This seems really odd -- as if you're assuming that at least one of them isn't absorbing well. Or possibly there is a different basis for the recommendation.

In any case, you folks seem rather deep into the details of this all. So, I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone has heard of this or if I'm being gullible by doing anything more than just nicely saying, "Thanks for the info Dad."

Thanks,
Donna
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Postby peekaboo » Thu Jun 25, 2009 7:45 pm

Hi Donna -

i take 3/k ui D3 a day. I rarely get out in the sun due to my disability/ms. any way there are lots of discussions re D3 and it should be easy for you to search on TIMS....

good hunting

H
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Postby bibliotekaren » Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:00 am

Hi Peek,

I actually did peruse, umm, about 90% of the Vitamin D threads. Didn't see this mentioned.

However, since my question is a bit more on the less substantive side, I think I'll just go ahead take my Vit D in whatever form and plan to thrive and prosper.

Thanks for your response.

Donna
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Re: Multiple Sources of D3?

Postby NHE » Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:34 pm

bibliotekaren wrote:However, since my question is a bit more on the less substantive side, I think I'll just go ahead take my Vit D in whatever form and plan to thrive and prosper.


Here's one thing to consider, you will want to make sure that you are taking the D3 form of the vitamin and not the D2 form. The D3 form is the natural form produced and utilized by the body.

NHE
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:00 pm

second
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Postby bibliotekaren » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:44 am

NHE and JL,

Thanks for the reminder on the D2 vs. D3. My favorite natural multi has D2. While it's not a concern since it's not my main source of Vitamin D, it makes me wonder about some of the other things -- the mineral forms.

It makes my head spin -- one thing at a time.

Thanks for the input.

Donna
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Re: Multiple Sources of D3

Postby NHE » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:41 pm

Hi Bibliotekaren,
I found this article to be an informative review on vitamin d3. By the way, the full article is available for free.

NHE
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Postby bibliotekaren » Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:45 pm

NHE,

Nice, a peer-reviewed journal article that's free. This will give me a bit to chew on -- thanks!

Donna
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