all things vitamin D

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:49 pm

here's a page with a bit of info, but it's talking in teaspoons not mg:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrit ... tions.html

and here is the nutritiondata web site entry for cod liver oil (serving size ONE CUP?!?!?):
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/628/2

and that's all i got - can't find an online 250mg product specifying A and D content so far.
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Re: vitamin d

Postby NHE » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:15 am

I used to take cod liver oil capsules. They were 500 mg each and contained 130IU of vitamin D3 and 1250 IU of vitamin A. They also contained about 65 mg of omega-3 fatty acids. I chose to get more omega-3 so I switched over to regular fish oil and a Ca, Mg, Zn, and vitamin D3 combo. I've also read that more than 2500IU/day of vitamin A can be problematic. Note that vitamin A should not be confused with beta-carotene, the latter of which is a provitamin A. In effect, your body will only convert as much beta-carotene into vitamin A that it needs. For me, it was not possible to get as much omega-3 as I desired from cod liver oil without getting exessive amounts of vitamin A. I currently take 6g/day of fish oil which provides 1800mg of omega-3 fatty acids.

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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:58 am

good info nhe.

i figured out to change the serving size on the nutritiondata link. now it's information on 100g, so you can just divde by 400 to get 250 mg, is that about right?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/628/2

Vitamin A 100014 IU 2000%
Vitamin D 10001 IU 2500%

soooo in a 250, roughly what... 250IU vit A, and 25 IU vit D? not quite equivalent to your 500s NHE, but it's a ballpark at least...

i agree with your strategy NHE and it's the one i use too :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:24 pm

heya shye, 58 in what units? nmol/L i presume?

i can't find anything that has a sort of introductory blurb on d3 receptors. it's kind of why i never really bothered to try and understand them in the early days of my reading on vitamin d3.

nonetheless, here are a couple links...
The Role of the Vitamin D Receptor in Regulating Vitamin D Metabolism: A Study of Vitamin D-Dependent Rickets, Type II
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/5/1908

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_receptor

what happened, and you can read all about it under the Orthomolecular Biochemistry topic under Regimens, was that i figured out i had a zinc deficiency first. then i fixed it.
then i realized that my uric acid had suddenly normalized too.
then i had a d3 test. did 'the usual' d3 megadose. did not have 'the usual' response. was expecting to go from 103 to 150 nmol/L or thereabouts. instead went to 271!
i don't know if it makes sense to associate the vitamin d3 receptor's zinc finger with this change in my dose response. i can't find any studies where they have measured dose response to d3, in zinc replete and zinc deficient subjects.
even so, it makes sense to me that somehow, fixing that zinc deficiency altered my body's response to d3 intake.
as i said, i have yet to get my hands on research that will back up my suspicions. let's keep hunting together ;D
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:27 pm

o and by the way, i have done a pretty good lit review on zinc and with your eye trouble and refractory d3 deficiency, seems like you are right on track to be looking at this mineral... i have found a number of studies where they compared zinc in health and disease.. the healthy controls' zinc levels repeatedly average 18.2 umol/L... fyi...
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Postby sbr487 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:36 am

Thanks a lot. I checked it again, it is 250 mg of cod liver oil. I take 2 of them daily. So I think this level is ok. Actually feeling a bit better after I have started them. Also, do you guys have any info about b12. I have been hearing a lot about it, but are these available as medicinal capsules?

Any thoughts on these?
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:57 am

hi sbr, if you want to read what i have said on the b12 subject in the past, go to the forum search.
then, in the keyword field, enter:
sublingual AND methylcobalamin

in the author field, enter:
jimmylegs

and filter results on 'posts' not 'topics'

happy reading!
JL
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Medicare no longer covers Vitamin D testing !

Postby shye » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:46 pm

Medicare no longer pays for Vitamin D testing--

i think we need to contact our senators and congressmen--this is an essential test in dealing with MS, osteoporosis, etc and it is insane that they are now omitting it from allowable tests.


(and NY State no longer allows Zinc tests to be paid for by ANY insurerers!)
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Vitamin D curiously low

Postby Merlyn » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:23 pm

I started to spend a lot of time in the sun after getting on the right thyroid medication. Prior to that, I could not tolerate even tiny amounts of sunshine, I would just collapse. So since being on T3, I can suntan and do so. So a couple of years ago, after turning dark dark brown, I had my vitamin D3 level tested, which came back like 25 (reference range 15-145, although don't quote me on these numbers). I was barely above reference range... I remember being totally puzzled by this, and I am wondering if it could be related to too much iron... anybody else test their vitamin D3 and find it to be alarmingly low?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3838288
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Postby SaintLouis » Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:51 pm

In October my D level was 21 and so I've been on 50000IU every week since to try and bring it up. Oddly my iron stores are alarmingly low as well and doc wants me to have IV iron. Of course I'm terrified to agree to that at this point.
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Postby cheerleader » Wed Dec 30, 2009 11:34 pm

new study on vitamin D in fair skinned women in UK...could low serum D levels be linked to your genetics-regardless of D intake?

Further research is required to explore potential genetic links between low vitamin D levels and pigmentation. Polymorphisms in the vitamin D binding protein and vitamin D hydroxylase ( CYP2R1) genes influence vitamin D levels although vitamin D receptor (VDR) genotypes have not been consistently linked to vitamin D levels in healthy individuals [25]. In prostate cancer patients, the Fok1 ff VDR polymorphism when associated with low plasma vitamin D levels conferred the highest risk of prostate cancer in the USA as well as giving rise to more aggressive tumours [26]. The anti-proliferative and differentiation effects of vitamin D on many cell types have long been known with therapeutic targets such as psoriasis and cancer but the effects of vitamin D are very complex with the involvement of many pathways in the cell cycle [27]. It is becoming apparent that skin pigmentation via the MSH pathway is involved in cell survival and proliferation as well as inflammation so it is possible that pigmentation genes and genes involved in vitamin D metabolism may be linked [28].


link to study

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Postby Johnson » Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:19 am

new study on vitamin D in fair skinned women in UK...could low serum D levels be linked to your genetics-regardless of D intake?


Great... Other than the "bronzing" of a typical hemachromatosis type, I am fair skinned Celtic-type, as is my mother - who was born in the UK. I'm doomed. Dagnabit.

Nice find cheerleader.
My name is not really Johnson. MSed up since 1993
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Dec 31, 2009 5:06 am

hi there, first off i will say this is not a topic for the CCSVI forum.

until i figure out how to move it to the 'natural approach' forum, i'll answer here:

perhaps try increasing your supplemental d3 intake, merlyn. sunshine doesn't necessarily give you everything you need for d3. especially as your skin gets darker. pigmentation (also age) interferes with d3 generation in the skin.

when you sit out in the sun or take dietary/supplemental d3 (cholecalciferol) the first thing that happens after formation in the skin, is a hydroxylation (primarily) in the liver.

after that it is the metabolite 25 hydroxyvitamin d3. that is the level that is tested to determine your body's stores. the units for this test (SI) are nmol/L.

the next thing that happens is another hydroxylation mainly in the kidneys. after this stage vitamin d3 becomes the powerful anti-inflammatory steroid hormone 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin d3. the units for this test (SI) are pmol/L.

i am female, with UK parents. i have been successful using diet and supplements, to get my d3 (the 25 hydroxy one) up over 100 nmol/l.

on the high doses i took initially, i have had it as high as 149 without doing anything for my liver.

my first booster regimen was starting from 72, after months of supplementing at between 3000-4000 IU per day. i called the hospital and they told me a regimen designed to get patients boosted 50 nmol/l in a short time. the regimen is 50,000IU/d x 10 days. that got me up to 149.

when i stop taking high dose d3 it settles back down below 100.

over the last year or so, i have been looking into the connection between the liver and low uric acid and zinc in ms patients. incidentally i noticed that after correcting my zinc deficiency, not only did my uric acid normalize, but my d3 absorption seemed to skyrocket.

zinc supplementation apparently fixed my uric acid level by providing my liver with the tools it needed to properly complete the urea cycle.

around the same time i was investigating zinc uric acid and the liver, i realized my d3 was down to 103. this was after taking 25,000IU d3 per week through the winter. i did a shorter, 8 day regimen at 50,000 IU per day.

the result: 271 nmol/L d3!!!

i had to stop supplementing altogether to get it back down under 250.

so bottom line, there are ways to get your levels up, you do not have to rely on sunshine alone... the inuit don't!
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Postby shye » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:07 pm

Merlyn,once you are tanned, you absorb less or no Vit D from the sun.

after about 10 years of taking 800 IU of D daily, Iwas tested deficient (below 21 ng/mL)--my iron was all okay--took about 2 1/2 years of high dose (10-15,000 IU) to bring up to 58 (tested at end of summer) so the next 2 months continued with an average of about 7,000 IU daily, and then recent test only 44 ng/mL ! not much sun in past few months (whereas had been in sun in the summer just before previous test).
So, I definitely do absorb from the sun, but even with sun need supplement--and without sun, need to supplement much more. And my iron is still okay

(am fair, celtic somewhere on father's side)
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soap minimises vitamin D absorption?

Postby hwebb » Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:45 pm

Hi there,
I've been reading in a number of places that soap inhibits vitamin D absorption from the skin. The most recent place I read this was in a vegetarian lifestyle magazine, but there's mention of this all over the net also. The theory goes that vitamin D is fat-soluble, and soap contains substantial fat...so when you start forming vitamin D in your skin it may osmotically transfer to the soap...rather than seep into your blood stream. So apparently you're meant to wash your skin with water only...and it takes 48 hrs for maximum vitamin D absorption.
Does anyone have any experience with this (gone for a soap-free period to see if their vitamin D levels are improved) ?
I had a soap-free shower today - and must say I feel pretty clean!
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