all things vitamin D

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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:48 pm

hi i am not sure if it is iron "overload" that is causing the deposition of iron in ms brains... i have never had anything close to iron overload, more like the opposite...

low d3 and iron overload are not associated from what i can see. more like the other way around - low d3 and low iron are associated ...

Effect of iron on serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D and 24,25-dihydroxyvitamin D concentrations (babies)
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/56/3/533

Vitamin D and the Intestinal Absorption of Iron and Cobalt1 (chicks)
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/80/3/332.pdf

i do know that zinc deficiency can cause iron dysregulation and deposits, this is the study i like to think about:

Zinc Deficiency-induced Iron Accumulation, a Consequence of Alterations in Iron Regulatory Protein-binding Activity, Iron Transporters, and Iron Storage Proteins (in vitro)
http://www.jbc.org/content/283/8/5168.abstract

knowing the following:
1) zinc tends to be lower in ms patients
2) that you can correct your low ms-patient level of uric acid and
3) improve your d3 absorption,
just by normalizing your zinc level to the average enjoyed by 'healthy controls' - 18.2umol/L - those are enough reason to do so in my view, but if it also helps with the toxicity from iron deposition? it just keeps getting better.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby harry1 » Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:59 am

Thanks for your answer Jimmylegs !!!
O.k. i see that Zinc is an important player for proper Iron metabolism.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 26, 2009 12:19 pm

no probs harry :)
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vitamin d

Postby sbr487 » Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:14 am

Hi,

I take cod liver oil daily (for last 1 month). I take one capsule twice a daily. I read somewhere that excess vitamin d is bad for health. Can someone let me know if my current intake is within prescribed limits.

Regards,
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:51 am

hi sb, you have not provided enough information to get an answer to your question.
we would need to know capsule size, vit A and/or D content specified on the bottle, any other sources of D you might be taking, estimated dietary intake, that kind of thing.
estimated daily intake requirement per the research is 4000IU per day.
if you need to get your levels higher, you have to take more than 4000 daily.

test your blood to make sure what you take is working. minimum should be close to 150 nmol/L. to avoid toxicity (in the form of hypercalcaemia) ensure that your 25(OH)vitaminD3 level does not exceed 250 nmol/L.

you must ensure that your intake of minerals like calcium, magnesium and zinc are matched to a 4000IU daily D3 intake.

hth,
JL
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby shye » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:25 pm

Jimmylegs,
would greatly appreciate where you got info re Zinc fingers and D3 receptors--
Am just slowly finding I need super amts of Zinc to operate fairly normally--
And as read this thread, was putting more together--I was taking 800 IU of D for at least 10 years, and my drs at the time were alarmed I was on too much--had osteo---------
When I finally got around to testing D level, was deficient! Then took me 2 years, at 10-15,000 IU's daily, to bring it up to only 58.
And parallel timing, started to realize needed way more than RDI of Zinc to see color somewhat correctly (had optic neuritis to pt of temporarly blindness years ago), and to allleviate depression, and have a bit more energy.
So, just looking at this in light of "zinc fingers, maybe lack of enough zinc was the reason for D so low, and for great length of time to only bring to 58.
So would really appreciate this info (I'll also scour net for it)--Thanks
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Postby sbr487 » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:48 am

Hi Jimmylegs,

I remember seeing the contents and all I could see if 250 mg (not sure if this was vit-d). I will look and get back. But I remember for sure that except this nothing else was mentioned. Also, the capsules are openly available at all chemists since I was a child and seen be common around the world.

The pic is from wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cod_liver_oil

Regards,
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:49 pm

here's a page with a bit of info, but it's talking in teaspoons not mg:
http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrit ... tions.html

and here is the nutritiondata web site entry for cod liver oil (serving size ONE CUP?!?!?):
http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/628/2

and that's all i got - can't find an online 250mg product specifying A and D content so far.
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Re: vitamin d

Postby NHE » Sat Dec 05, 2009 5:15 am

I used to take cod liver oil capsules. They were 500 mg each and contained 130IU of vitamin D3 and 1250 IU of vitamin A. They also contained about 65 mg of omega-3 fatty acids. I chose to get more omega-3 so I switched over to regular fish oil and a Ca, Mg, Zn, and vitamin D3 combo. I've also read that more than 2500IU/day of vitamin A can be problematic. Note that vitamin A should not be confused with beta-carotene, the latter of which is a provitamin A. In effect, your body will only convert as much beta-carotene into vitamin A that it needs. For me, it was not possible to get as much omega-3 as I desired from cod liver oil without getting exessive amounts of vitamin A. I currently take 6g/day of fish oil which provides 1800mg of omega-3 fatty acids.

NHE
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:58 am

good info nhe.

i figured out to change the serving size on the nutritiondata link. now it's information on 100g, so you can just divde by 400 to get 250 mg, is that about right?

http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/fats-and-oils/628/2

Vitamin A 100014 IU 2000%
Vitamin D 10001 IU 2500%

soooo in a 250, roughly what... 250IU vit A, and 25 IU vit D? not quite equivalent to your 500s NHE, but it's a ballpark at least...

i agree with your strategy NHE and it's the one i use too :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:24 pm

heya shye, 58 in what units? nmol/L i presume?

i can't find anything that has a sort of introductory blurb on d3 receptors. it's kind of why i never really bothered to try and understand them in the early days of my reading on vitamin d3.

nonetheless, here are a couple links...
The Role of the Vitamin D Receptor in Regulating Vitamin D Metabolism: A Study of Vitamin D-Dependent Rickets, Type II
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/86/5/1908

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_receptor

what happened, and you can read all about it under the Orthomolecular Biochemistry topic under Regimens, was that i figured out i had a zinc deficiency first. then i fixed it.
then i realized that my uric acid had suddenly normalized too.
then i had a d3 test. did 'the usual' d3 megadose. did not have 'the usual' response. was expecting to go from 103 to 150 nmol/L or thereabouts. instead went to 271!
i don't know if it makes sense to associate the vitamin d3 receptor's zinc finger with this change in my dose response. i can't find any studies where they have measured dose response to d3, in zinc replete and zinc deficient subjects.
even so, it makes sense to me that somehow, fixing that zinc deficiency altered my body's response to d3 intake.
as i said, i have yet to get my hands on research that will back up my suspicions. let's keep hunting together ;D
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 05, 2009 4:27 pm

o and by the way, i have done a pretty good lit review on zinc and with your eye trouble and refractory d3 deficiency, seems like you are right on track to be looking at this mineral... i have found a number of studies where they compared zinc in health and disease.. the healthy controls' zinc levels repeatedly average 18.2 umol/L... fyi...
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Postby sbr487 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:36 am

Thanks a lot. I checked it again, it is 250 mg of cod liver oil. I take 2 of them daily. So I think this level is ok. Actually feeling a bit better after I have started them. Also, do you guys have any info about b12. I have been hearing a lot about it, but are these available as medicinal capsules?

Any thoughts on these?
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:57 am

hi sbr, if you want to read what i have said on the b12 subject in the past, go to the forum search.
then, in the keyword field, enter:
sublingual AND methylcobalamin

in the author field, enter:
jimmylegs

and filter results on 'posts' not 'topics'

happy reading!
JL
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Medicare no longer covers Vitamin D testing !

Postby shye » Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:46 pm

Medicare no longer pays for Vitamin D testing--

i think we need to contact our senators and congressmen--this is an essential test in dealing with MS, osteoporosis, etc and it is insane that they are now omitting it from allowable tests.


(and NY State no longer allows Zinc tests to be paid for by ANY insurerers!)
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