all things vitamin D

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby eric593 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:37 pm

It's important to take Vit D3 with the biggest meal of the day for maximum absorption, this may help increase levels.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20200983

J Bone Miner Res. 2010 Apr;25(4):928-30.

Taking vitamin D with the largest meal improves absorption and results in higher serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D.
Mulligan GB, Licata A.

Department of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Metabolism, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Cleveland, OH 44195, USA.

Abstract
Many patients treated for vitamin D deficiency fail to achieve an adequate serum level of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] despite high doses of ergo- or cholecalciferol. The objective of this study was to determine whether administration of vitamin D supplement with the largest meal of the day would improve absorption and increase serum levels of 25(OH)D.

This was a prospective cohort study in an ambulatory tertiary-care referral center. Patients seen at the Cleveland Clinic Foundation Bone Clinic for the treatment of vitamin D deficiency who were not responding to treatment make up the study group. Subjects were instructed to take their usual vitamin D supplement with the largest meal of the day. The main outcome measure was the serum 259(OH)D level after 2 to 3 months.

eventeen patients were analyzed. The mean age (+/-SD) and sex (F/M) ratio were 64.5 +/- 11.0 years and 13 females and 4 males, respectively. The dose of 25(OH)D ranged from 1000 to 50,000 IU daily. The mean baseline serum 25(OH)D level (+/-SD) was 30.5 +/- 4.7 ng/mL (range 21.6 to 38.8 ng/mL). The mean serum 25(OH)D level after diet modification (+/-SD) was 47.2 +/- 10.9 ng/mL (range 34.7 to 74.0 ng/mL, p < .01).

Overall, the average serum 25(OH)D level increased by 56.7% +/- 36.7%.

A subgroup analysis based on the weekly dose of vitamin D was performed, and a similar trend was observed.Thus it is concluded that taking vitamin D with the largest meal improves absorption and results in about a 50% increase in serum levels of 25(OH)D levels achieved. Similar increases were observed in a wide range of vitamin D doses taken for a variety of medical conditions.

PMID: 20200983 [PubMed - in process]
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Re: My doctor's thoughts on vitamin D

Postby Mirry » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:07 am

He also strongly advocates getting plenty of sun, as the body of a white person can produce 25,000 untis simple by spending a half hour in the sun.


At my appointment yesterday I asked my specialist if there was anything I should avoid with MS. He pointed out of the window to the "sun" and told me to stay out of it as it is not good for people with MS :? I did tell him it's a little difficult living in Las Vegas.

Has anyone else heard this, as so far, most things I read, say a little sun is good for those with MS

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Re: My doctor's thoughts on vitamin D

Postby L » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:35 am

Mirry wrote:He also strongly advocates getting plenty of sun, as the body of a white person can produce 25,000 untis simple by spending a half hour in the sun.


At my appointment yesterday I asked my specialist if there was anything I should avoid with MS. He pointed out of the window to the "sun" and told me to stay out of it as it is not good for people with MS :? I did tell him it's a little difficult living in Las Vegas.

Has anyone else heard this, as so far, most things I read, say a little sun is good for those with MS

Mirry


I'm disappointed with your neurologist! Sack him! Unless heat intolerance is specifically bad with you then the sun's good. I read somewhere that, for MS, the UV component may be beneficial as well as the D3!

Unfortunately summer seems to have ended in London..
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:47 am

sounds like there's some mix up going on between heat sensitivity, and d3 synthesis!

also, re how much d3 is made in skin in 30 minutes, if you have not seen them before it sounds like your doc is referring to articles like these:

Am J Clin Nutr. 1999 May;69(5):842-56.
Vitamin D supplementation, 25-hydroxyvitamin D concentrations, and safety.
Vieth R.

Abstract
...Total-body sun exposure easily provides the equivalent of 250 microg (10,000 IU) vitamin D/d, suggesting that this is a physiologic limit.

...The assembled data from many vitamin D supplementation studies reveal a curve for vitamin D dose versus serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] response that is surprisingly flat up to 250 microg (10,000 IU) vitamin D/d.

...To ensure that serum 25(OH)D concentrations exceed 100 nmol/L, a total vitamin D supply of 100 microg (4000 IU)/d is required.

Except in those with conditions causing hypersensitivity, there is no evidence of adverse effects with serum 25(OH)D concentrations <140 nmol/L, which require a total vitamin D supply of 250 microg (10000 IU)/d to attain.

Published cases of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia, for which the 25(OH)D concentration and vitamin D dose are known, all involve intake of > or = 1000 microg (40,000 IU)/d.

Because vitamin D is potentially toxic, intake of >25 microg (1000 IU)/d has been avoided even though the weight of evidence shows that the currently accepted, no observed adverse effect limit of 50 microg (2000 IU)/d is too low by at least 5-fold.


there's also this other article (Adams and Hollis, "Vitamin D: Synthesis, Metabolism, and Clinical Measurement." In: Coe and Favus, eds., Disorders of Bone and Mineral Metabolism, Philadelphia: Lippincott Williams and Wilkins (2002) p. 159.) but i can't get full text right now - just a reference to its content at this site:

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/Vitamin-D.html#2
When atmospheric conditions are ideal and skies are clear, 30 minutes of whole-body exposure of pale skin to sunlight without clothing or sunscreen can result in the synthesis of between 10,000 and 20,000 IU of vitamin D. These quantities of vitamin D are large, and therefore capable of supplying the body's full needs.
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Postby shye » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:20 pm

Taking vitamin D with the largest meal improves absorption and results in higher serum levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D.

I've been taking it with the largest meal, AND usually with 1 tsp cod oil--yet not absorbing it. As I say, will take 10,000 IU of D and will up the zinc quite a bit, and test levels again in 2 months.
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vitamin D metabolism

Postby hwebb » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:54 pm

It may not be your exposure to sun, but your ability to metabolise vitamin D which is important.

http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 596859.htm
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:14 am

i have personally found that adequate mineral status (calcium, magnesium, zinc) is key for absorption. my D3 dose response changed dramatically after dealing with magnesium and zinc problems.
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Prolactin, Cholesterol & Vit D questions

Postby Wonderfulworld » Fri Sep 03, 2010 3:15 am

Just wondering if any of you who are interested in an Endocrine/Vitamin /CCSVI angle on MS would have any feedback?
My GP ran some bloods to investigate some non-MS problems I am having.

Prolactin - above normal
Cholesterol - above normal 5.3nmol

I was doing some reading about these as the GP has yet to ring me to advise on them.

I have found some research on Pubmed that suggests Prolactin is a negative thing for PWMS and is raised in both men and women, particularly that it is raised during a relapse. Other medical information states Prolactin is needed to create Oligodendrocytes (precursors to Myelin) so meaning a raised Prolactin level may be the body trying to repair your myelin?
Even more intriugingly I found an article that said Prolactin is circulated in the body from the pituitary gland to the parathyroid VIA small venous channels and if there is a blockage in these it can cause elevation of Prolaction - perhaps a CCSVI link?

Has anyone on the board done any in-depth digging on the role of Prolactin in MS?

Then on to the Cholesterol levels - it is needed to metabolise Vitamin D3, so I'm starting to wonder if it's shot up above normal to cope with the 4000IU of D3 I'm taking?
I used to do a once-fortnightly niacin-flush but hadn't done it so often recently, so I am going to reinstate it as it lowers LDL cholesterol. And widens veins albeit temporarily.

(Incidentally my Vit D3 is now 70nmol/L but I'm working on getting it to 100nmol/L and I've been given neuro's 'permission' to continue with 4000IU per day along with Cal/Mag/Zinc. My thyroid and glucose tolerance are both normal).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:11 am

heya :) well i went looking at pituitary and deficiency and the first results were talking about zinc so i just went with that. however quickly just switched over to prolactin levels and zinc. here is the review:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/abstract/134/6/1314
Maternal Zinc Deficiency Raises Plasma Prolactin Levels in Lactating Rats

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8562282
Endocrine interaction between zinc and prolactin. An interpretative review.
Zn2+ can inhibit PRL secretion within a range of physiologically and pharmacologically relevant concentrations


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6697238
Zinc acutely, selectively and reversibly inhibits pituitary prolactin secretion

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/conten ... t/68/1/215
Zinc Does Not Acutely Suppress Prolactin in Normal or Hyperprolactinemic Women

this last one.. i don't have full text access but from the abstract it appears that they were looking for a prolactin response after a single dose??? whereas the pregnant rat study was ongoing starting before pregnancy and continuing through out until after lactation. also, the levels achieved were startlingly high considering healthy controls levels are 18.2 umol/L. wonder what their zinc levels were before they started the zinc study?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6810775
Zinc, Prolactin, Gonadotropins, and Androgen Levels in Uremic Men
This study correlates plasma levels of Zinc (Zn) and some pituitary and testicular hormones in 20 uremic men (aged 17–58 years) on a weekly peritoneal dialysis program. Patients were compared to 12 healthy male volunteers (aged 28–40 years). In uremic men, plasma andros-tenedione (A) was elevated, while testosterone (T), dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and Zn were low. On a group basis, plasma follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and luteinizing hormone (LH) were normal while prolactin was increased.


http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve ... 3685906300
EFFECT OF ZINC SUPPLEMENTATION ON HYPERPROLACTINAEMIA IN URAEMIC MEN
Zinc and prolactin levels were measured in 32 male haemodialysis patients; 12 were receiving 50 mg zinc per day as zinc acetate and 20 were not. Zinc-treated patients had significantly higher plasma zinc levels (134±10 μg/dl v 88±2 μg/dl) and lower serum prolactin levels (11±4 ng/ml v 29±7 ng/ml) than untreated patients. Plasma zinc and serum prolactin were inversely related in zinc-treated and untreated patients (r = -0·79, p<0·001).


okay that's better, a longer term supplementation effort... now for the units conversion on the zinc.. Zinc µg/dL 0.153 µmoI/L ... all right the supplemented group got to 20.5 umol/L, a little higher than the average healthy control of 18.2, but still pretty close.

i looked for some more recent abstracts and ran across this tangential bit of info:
http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/c ... 9.abstract
Zinc inhibits nuclear factor-κB activation and sensitizes prostate cancer cells to cytotoxic agents

that brought me back to earlier discussions here about NF-κB and MS relapses. so to refresh, i did a quick search on MS and NF-κB, and the hits are talking about glatiramer acetate. Copaxone suppresses NF-κB too. interesting.

at the end of the day, i think it's a good thing you're on zinc. might be helpful to test your levels now and then :)

on to cholesterol:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3295705
Serum zinc and copper in hypercholesterolemia
The serum copper concentration was elevated, serum zinc concentration and zinc/copper ratio were decreased in the hypercholesterolemic group (cholesterol greater than 7.7 mmol/l).


that's all for now, gotta split :)

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Postby CureOrBust » Fri Sep 03, 2010 6:19 am

A thread specifically on Prolactin: http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-24418.html#24418
Its also in Phase I on Dignans pipeline: http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-55819.html#55819
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Vitamin D - health perspectives & deficiencies

Postby MSUK » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:40 pm

Image

Abstract
Vitamin D, the sunshine vitamin, has been important not only for the evolution of a healthy calcified vertebrate skeleton but it also evolved into a hormone that has a wide diversity of biologic effects.
During exposure to sunlight the ultraviolet B radiation converts 7-dehydrocholesterol to previtamin D(3) which in turn rapidly isomerizes to vitamin D(3)....

............... It is estimated that 1 billion people worldwide are vitamin D deficient or insufficient. Correcting and preventing this deficiency could have an enormous impact on reducing health costs worldwide..............Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Postby Wonderfulworld » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:53 am

I second what JL says. My D3 levels only started moving up to normal when I took zinc/cal/mag too.
I have to take 4000IU per day to keep my levels normal. Any less and they drop below normal. Living in Ireland I am pale, blue-eyed, dark hair but actually have sallow skin that tans easily. I am now avoiding the sun because it's aged my skin badly and I'm trying to keep D3 levels normal through supplements.

For those of you who are finding D3 or Iron keeps dropping it might be also worth your while finding out if you are coeliac as that would cause absorbtion problems. Your GP can run a screening blood test for you to rule it out. I never understood why I had so many symptoms of vitamin/mineral deficiencies (brittle nails, sore tongue, angular chelitis) in the past despite a good diet and supplements. My health only improved after finding out I was a coeliac and going gluten-free for life.

Edited for spelling.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Concussus Resurgo
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RR-MS dx 1998 and Coeliac dx 2003
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Copaxone, Cymbalta. EPO, Fish Oils, Vitamin D3 2000 IU daily, Cal/Mag/Zinc, Multivitamin/mineral, Co-Enzyme Q10, Probiotics, Milk Thistle.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:07 am

merlyn now that i know about your recalcitrant zinc deficiency from the phlebotomy thread, i re-state my earlier suggestion of investigating your protein status via a prealbumin test. or at least an albumin test. if you don't have enough protein in your system, supplementing zinc won't do any good!
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Scottish warning over vitamin D levels

Postby MSUK » Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:47 am

Image

New leaflets are to be handed out urging people to make sure they get enough vitamin D.

Doctors are concerned people in Scotland are not getting enough of the vitamin from sunlight and are not topping up their levels with a healthy diet.

There is increasing evidence that a lack of vitamin D could be linked to cancer and multiple sclerosis.
Doctors are also concerned about a rise in the bone disease rickets.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Vitamin D could be tested as MS aid in Scotland

Postby MSUK » Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:05 am

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Vitamin D supplements should be introduced in Scotland to see if they can help combat multiple sclerosis (MS), an expert has said.

Professor George Ebers, from Oxford University, made the suggestion at a one-day summit examining the possible link between MS and vitamin D deficiency.
The vitamin is naturally created in the body by exposure to the sun but in Scotland there is only enough sunlight of the necessary UVB wavelength for about half the year.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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