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Vitamin D has a direct immunomodulatory effect in MS

Postby MSUK » Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:43 am

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Vitamin D has a direct immunomodulatory effect on CD8+ T cells of patients with early multiple sclerosis and healthy control subjects

summary
There is increasing interest in the role of vitamin D in the pathogenesis and potentially in the treatment of multiple sclerosis (MS). The active form of vitamin D has been shown to have an immunomodulatory effect on CD4+ T cells. In this study its effect on CD8+ T cells from ten patients was examined.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Too Much Vitamin D?

Postby joehall » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:34 pm

It seems this topic doesn't have an end. I take lots of vitamin D, and i constantly hear from others to be careful of taking too much otherwise i could develop kidney stones, calcium build up etc the list goes on!
but does anyone have any sort of real experience with taking TOO MUCH vitamin D. It seems doctors have had patients take too much, but i am yet to meet these people or hear anything further from these people.

Can anyone help me?
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:47 pm

i had my levels go up to 271 nmol/L by accident one time. i spotted it quickly because i was monitoring the effects of my regimen. i got the level back down with no trouble.

even when the levels don't go over 250 you have the potential for problems with imbalances if taking high levels of D3. personally i drove my magnesium levels down by taking lots of D3 without properly balancing and timing it wrt other minerals...

the only reason my d3 ever went super high, was because my body's absorption had changed. previously i had been zinc deficient. i used a tried and true d3 megadose, but with my zinc situation corrected my d3 absorption was tripled.

HTH!
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Postby LR1234 » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:04 pm

I think Patrick Holford talked about overdosing on Vitamin D somewhere but I can't remember where......!
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Postby shye » Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:54 pm

Joehall-
yes, be careful--get your levels checked before you start supplementing, so you can monitor whether you indeed need to supplement, and how long it takes to get to a good level if you do need to supplement. I am one of those that overdosed--but my OH25 levels went only to where many of the proponents of taking high dose D recommend---that is, the level was above 50, but still within the range. BUT then I started seeing calcium deposits on my xrays of neck --ie carotid artery; then had ultrasound of abdomen (need one each year re: liver problem), and thiss time it showed calcification in arteries of abdomen. So got full ultrasound of carotids and solar plexus area, and indeed, calcification throughout. This was NOT there prior to taking large doses of Vit D ! I then had my Dr test my vitamin D 1 25 level (health insurance does not want to cover this, and if you read the CURRENT arguments, this is not a test needed, you only need the OH 25 level in order to supplement). BUT THIS IS WRONG. If you go back to the older advice on Vit D, you see must be careful with it, one of main reasons being the 1 25 D increases with supplementation, and if too high, this interferes with the parathyroid function, and then TOO MUCH CALCIUM IS DEPOSITED, AND MOST OFTEN IN SOFT TISSUE (IE NOT BONE). This is what happened to me--Indeed, my 1-25 was too high!
So stopped all supplementation for several months, retested and 1-25 now at good level, but the OH25 now at insufficiency level of 27. BUT I will post later (need to find the articles) the level the OH25 is best at is about 35--NOT the 50 or higher currently recommended.. when go above 35, run into problems of various sorts.
So, I am cautiously supplementing, and will retest soon, in order to make sure do not go above the 35.
And of courseI am taking supplements and changing diet in order to get out the calcium deposited in the wrong places. Might even do chelation again. Will get an ultrasound in 6 months to track progress on that.
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Re: Too Much Vitamin D?

Postby NHE » Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:29 am

Hi Shye,
You may want to look into vitamin K2. There a couple of different forms of vitamin K. Vitamin K1 is involved in the clotting cascade. It is the intended target to be inhibited by coumadin/warfarin. However, vitamin K2, which is also inhibited, has a different role. It activates a protein, matrix Gla, which scrubs calcium deposits out of our blood vessels. You may want to give vitamin K2, also known as menaquinone (look for MK-7), a trial run to see if it helps.

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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:05 am

i have been testing both 25OH and 1,25OH2 D3, the first time i tested 1,25 it was a lab error when i was trying to get baseline 25OH. more recently i have been keeping an eye on it since i have an unrelated medicine which contains 1,25OH2 D3. it did take my levels too high so i discontinued use. i have not noticed any problems with calcium deposits but have not had any tests done which would flag them either, so who knows!
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Postby shye » Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:54 pm

Thanks NHE, appreciate the advice
Yes, I am taking K2 already--using the Life Extension formula Super K, when this runs out, will get a K2 derived from natto


Jimmylegs,
you don't feel the calcification (unless, I would guess, it pretty much closes off the arteries)--as I say, mine was discovered only while doing testing for other things...
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:41 pm

hi shye, as i said, i haven't noticed anything because i have not had any form of testing that would point them out to me.
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Vitamin D metabolites & MS

Postby MSUK » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:01 am

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Summary: This interesting imaging study recruited 193 patients with MS and aimed to explore the relationship between blood levels of vitamin D metabolites and clinical disability and changes on brain MRI.

The authors found a statistically significant relationship between low levels of Vitamin D metabolites and degree of disability measured using the MS severity scale. A similar trend was found when disability was measured using the Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS), but this did not reach statistical significance. Higher values of the 25(OH)VD(3) to 24, 25(OH)(2)VD(3) ratio were associated with higher MSSS (p=0.041) and lower brain parenchymal fraction (p=0.008)

The authors conclude that Vitamin D metabolites have protective associations with disability and brain atrophy in MS. In particular, they feel the results indicate strong associations for the 24, 25(OH)(2)VD(3) metabolite, which has not been extensively investigated in MS patients.... Read More - http://www.msrc.co.uk/index.cfm/fuseact ... ageid/1334
MS-UK - http://www.ms-uk.org/
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Postby elliberato » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:29 pm

too much???who knows what too much really will do? the stinking fda cant decide if it should be 200, 400, 600iu? The docs at cleveland clinic even argue the point. check out their site there is a discussion on this very topic. Vit d2 is associated with kid stones, not d3...rather have high d levels than PML!
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Postby tara97 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:38 pm

yes if you have spent too much time with out D like I did, your body will compensate in other ways. my lungs compensated. when your body's pH has adjusted to its absence and you suddenly replace it. or if you have a severe magnesium and possasium deficiency with in the cells and then you replace it, you could throw yourself into alkalosis and your muscles will start to freeze as mine did. your cells could become calcium loaded with out replacing the magnesium first and then potassium will follow. I thank god that my doctor did not give me the usual 50,000 ui pills as 1000 iu every day for one month made my shoulders and neck freeze. so I learned to take D every few days (with strong sun block) and stop for a few days and took magnesium every day. eventually everything balanced again and I can take as much D as I want. in fact I can feel when I need it as my posture starts to suffer . listen to your body it will tell you everything.
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Vitamin D supplements may not contain as much as advertised

Postby patientx » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:55 am

I recently came across the following poster presentation from last year's ACTRIMS meeting:


Vitamin D3 content in commercially available oral supplements
Christopher P. Eckstein, Veera Bandaru, Norman Haughey, Peter A.
Calabresi Department of Neurology, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland

Background: As the role of vitamin D in the immune system becomes better understood, oral supplementation for vitamin D deficiency is increasingly common in multiple sclerosis (MS) centers with many patients requiring high dose supplementation to reach adequate serum levels. However, given the wide variety of vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) supplements available and limited regulation within the nutritional supplement industry, the true vitamin D3 content of over-the-counter (OTC) supplements is a concern.

Objectives: To determine the vitamin D3 content in various OTC oral vitamin D3 supplements.

Methods: Various OTC vitamin D3 supplements ranging in dose from 400 IU to 10,000 IU were purchased at local and on-line retail pharmacies or nutrition stores. Vitamin D3 was extracted using ethanol extraction, and sample analysis was performed by liquid chromatography triple quadrupole electrospray ionization tandem mass spectrometry (PE Sciex API 3000).

Results: Ten bottles from various brands with labeled doses ranging from 400 IU to 10,000 IU were tested. The mean cholecalciferol content among all samples was 33.5% of the labeled dose with a range of 0.236 to 81.7% (p<0.0001). Mean (SD) percent cholecalciferol content was higher for the low dose tablets when compared to high dose: 51.5% (44.6) for 400 IU (p=0.015), 34.1% (13.2) for 1,000 IU (p=0.0277), and 29.9% (41.4) for 10,000 IU tablets (p=0.0077).

Conclusions: Many OTC vitamin D3 supplements have significantly lower vitamin content than advertised, which may contribute to the difficulty for some patients to reach adequate serum vitamin D levels despite supplementation. This reflects the need for increased regulation of the vitamin industry.
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Postby Rokkit » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:28 am

That figures. Nothing's ever simple.
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Tr1 Regulatory Cells and Vitamin D

Postby CVfactor » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:17 pm

Hi,

It seems that Vitamin D has a direct effect on the regulatory T lymphocyctes known as Tr1 cells. These cells keep the Th1 imnflamitory response from getting out of control.

Here is a good description of this process:

http://www.rndsystems.com/cb_detail_objectname_cb10i2_vitamin_d_multiple_sclerosis.aspx

Here are some recent articles from the imunological community on the effect of Vitamin D on the immune system;

http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v11/n4/abs/ni.1851.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0006635
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/182/7/4296.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17099776
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0012925
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18200504
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19843932

Here is a company developing cell therapy for Tr1 cells:
http://www.txcell.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=145

It appears that the immunologist are way ahead of the game in terms of a cure for MS. Vitamin D and Tr1 regulatory cells seem to be the key.

Unfortunately, it does not seem like much research or attention is being focused on this in the U.S.
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