all things vitamin D

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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby CVfactor » Tue Oct 25, 2011 6:44 am

Does anyone know what the 25(OH)D3 blood levels ranged from in the high dose group? I would like to see a study where they first supplement the study group until they all reach the same serum levels and then start the trial. The amount they supplement with is really irrelevant.
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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby patientx » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:11 am

The abstract for the study is available here:
http://www.aan.com/go/elibrary/journal

Objective: Higher latitude, lower ultraviolet exposure, and lower serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD) correlate with higher multiple sclerosis (MS) prevalence, relapse rate, and mortality. We therefore evaluated the effects of high-dose vitamin D2 (D2) in MS.Methods: Adults with clinically active relapsing-remitting MS (RRMS) were randomized to 6 months' double-blind placebo-controlled high-dose vitamin D2, 6,000 IU capsules, dose adjusted empirically aiming for a serum 25OHD 130-175 nM. All received daily low-dose (1,000 IU) D2 to prevent deficiency. Brain MRIs were performed at baseline, 4, 5, and 6 months. Primary endpoints were the cumulative number of new gadolinium-enhancing lesions and change in the total volume of T2 lesions. Secondary endpoints were Expanded Disability Status Scale (EDSS) score and relapses.Results: Twenty-three people were randomized, of whom 19 were on established interferon or glatiramer acetate (Copaxone) treatment. Median 25OHD rose from 54 to 69 nM (low-dose D2) vs 59 to 120 nM (high-dose D2) (p = 0.002). No significant treatment differences were detected in the primary MRI endpoints. Exit EDSS, after adjustment for entry EDSS, was higher following high-dose D2 than following low-dose D2 (p = 0.05). There were 4 relapses with high-dose D2 vs none with low-dose D2 (p = 0.04).Conclusion: We did not find a therapeutic advantage in RRMS for high-dose D2 over low-dose D2 supplementation.Classification of evidence: This study provides Class I evidence that high-dose vitamin D2 (targeting 25OHD 130-175 nM), compared to low-dose supplementation (1,000 IU/d), was not effective in reducing MRI lesions in patients with RRMS.
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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby CVfactor » Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:55 am

Here is the blood serum levels across the study:

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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby lyndacarol » Tue Oct 25, 2011 5:13 pm

According to the following article:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... _DNL_art_1

It is believed that vitamin D3 from oral supplements, which is unsulfated, cannot be converted to D3 sulfate, and may therefore not have the identical health benefits as the vitamin D your skin synthesizes


Perhaps it is the sulfur that makes the difference?

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My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"
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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby mrbarlow » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:38 pm

lyndacarol wrote:According to the following article:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... _DNL_art_1

It is believed that vitamin D3 from oral supplements, which is unsulfated, cannot be converted to D3 sulfate, and may therefore not have the identical health benefits as the vitamin D your skin synthesizes


Perhaps it is the sulfur that makes the difference?

__________________________

My hypothesis: excess insulin (hyperinsulinemia) plays a major role in MS, as developed in my initial post: general-discussion-f1/topic1878.html "Insulin – Could This Be the Key?"




Thanks Lynda

I think there was some research that suggested that MS sufferers who sunbathed statistically faired better than those taking supplements of Vitamin D

Of course this maybe statistical bias - ie MS sufferers who happen to sunbath are less affected so able to sunbath etc (association not cause)
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Re: High dose vitamin D has no impact on MS study suggests

Postby lyndacarol » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:00 am

According to this article, there may be many other reasons to take vitamin D3:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... 0_SNL_MS_1

Dental caries has been shown to be inversely related to total sun exposure, with those living in sunnier areas having about half as many cavities as those living in less sunny areas.

Increasing your and your family’s vitamin D levels appears to be a much better option compared to drinking fluoridated water, as there are many additional health benefits of vitamin D, and a number of adverse effects of water fluoridation, including dental fluorosis and potential reduction in IQ.

There are multiple connections between your oral health, heart disease, and vitamin D status, and higher vitamin D levels have been found to prevent health problems related to your mouth, heart, and cardiovascular system.

Vitamin D may also play a crucial role in cancer. Grassroots Health is now implementing the world’s first cancer prevention project and study to evaluate vitamin D as a preventive strategy against breast cancer. Participants are being sought.
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Re: Tr1 Regulatory Cells and Vitamin D

Postby CVfactor » Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:22 am

To review what is now known about regulatory T-cells, there are two basic types: Natural Tregs (nTregs) which are developed in the thymus and induced Tregs (iTregs) which are developed outside of the thymus.

nTregs seem to have the feature of preventing autoimmunity from occuring in the first place.

iTregs seem to migrate to sites of inflamation and shut-down an immune response at the appropriate time (see previous post on how this occurs) to prevent the response from getting out of control which could lead to autoimmunity.

Here is a good overview of the differences from the following paper:

Image
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20402669

The important thing to note is that autoimmunity seems to be caused by a defect in nTregs.

How does Vitamin D play a role in this?

It appears that Vitamin D promotes the development of iTregs which can in effect shut-down an autoimmune response at the site of imflamation. In particular, it seems to promote the Tr1 class of regulatory t-cells which produce the anti-inflamitory cytokine (chemical signal) IL-10. Here is a recent high dosage study that demonstrates this:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21179201

Conclusion/Significance: Twelve week supplementation of high dose vitamin D3 in RRMS patients was well tolerated and
did not induce decompensation of calcium metabolism. The skewing towards an anti-inflammatory cytokine profile
supports the evidence on vitamin D as an immune-modulator, and may be used as outcome measure for upcoming
randomized placebo-controlled trials.


Therefore, we speculate that the rise in IL-10+CD4+ T cells might
reflect expansion of inducible regulatory Tr1 cells. The finding of
an altered profile of pro- and anti-inflammatory CD4+ T cells
conforms to observations in experimental studies [5] and further
supports the assessment of vitamin D3 as a natural immune
modulator in MS [3].


To paraphrase, the amount of Tr1 anitinflamitory regulatory t-cells found in the high vitamin D group is nearyly double that of that found in the control group.

Also, recently there was published another high dose Vitamin D paper which I have provided a link here:

http://www.neurology.org/content/77/17/1611

Results: Twenty-three people were randomized, of whom 19 were on established interferon or glatiramer acetate (Copaxone) treatment. Median 25OHD rose from 54 to 69 nM (low-dose D2) vs 59 to 120 nM (high-dose D2) (p = 0.002). No significant treatment differences were detected in the primary MRI endpoints. Exit EDSS, after adjustment for entry EDSS, was higher following high-dose D2 than following low-dose D2 (p = 0.05). There were 4 relapses with high-dose D2 vs none with low-dose D2 (p = 0.04).

Conclusion: We did not find a therapeutic advantage in RRMS for high-dose D2 over low-dose D2 supplementation.



However, this study did not evaluate objective parameters such as increases in Tr1 cells but only looked at more subjective measures such as relapse rate.

But it seems to me from everything I have read, Vitamin D will not stop MS. However, one thing it may do is reduce the relapse severity/frequency. This is what I have experienced, but my case is of course anecdotal. I believe the only way to stop MS is by the HSCT protocal which will re-set your immune system back to self tolerance.

One thing that is still not clear though when comparing the different vitamin D trials is the dosage.

The report from the above paper which found no significant benefit of high dose vitamin D maintained a vitamin D level in the range of 130–175 nM 25OHD.

However, the other high dosage study cited above (20,000 IU/day) had a significantly higher serum level without having any ill effects such as hypercalcemia:

Image

This is also the case for the Burton study shown in a previous post with a maximum dose of 40,000 IU/day and average dose of 15,000 IU/day.

Both of these later studies evaluated the T-cell profile and found an anit-inflamitory results.

So, I really don't believe that science yet knows what the optimun levels for vitamin D is in humans. Most of the guidelines are for bone health and the actual amount to maintain a healthy immune system may be much higher. Here is a good desciption of this:

Image
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15225842
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Candida and vitamin D deficiency

Postby Sunnee » Wed Nov 09, 2011 12:02 am

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Re: Candida and vitamin D deficiency

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:51 pm

ie, there is no known link between vitamin d3 and candida infection. take your zinc folks!
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Re: Candida and vitamin D deficiency

Postby goodtotalk » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:16 pm

Can you tell me where to find documented proof of that fact please if you would be so kind
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Re: Candida and vitamin D deficiency

Postby goodtotalk » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:30 pm

Dont worry, I know exactly who to ask, I've got a holistic well being center near me, they will tell me, they have a nutrition team who can help me, I dont know why I didnt think of that.

Actually I'll contact 3 different centers to get a more balanced view, they are professionally qualified, no disrespect but best to get several opinions not just one.
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Re: Tr1 Regulatory Cells and Vitamin D

Postby CVfactor » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:48 pm

Here is a new paper comparing supplementation with vitamin D2 vs. D3:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/3/E447.short

Conclusion:D3 is approximately 87% more potent in raising and maintaining serum 25(OH)D concentrations and produces 2- to 3-fold greater storage of vitamin D than does equimolar D2. For neither was there evidence of sequestration in fat, as had been postulated for doses in this range. Given its greater potency and lower cost, D3 should be the preferred treatment option when correcting vitamin D deficiency.
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Re: Tr1 Regulatory Cells and Vitamin D

Postby BERNARD » Sat Nov 19, 2011 2:05 am

CVfactor wrote:Hi,

It seems that Vitamin D has a direct effect on the regulatory T lymphocyctes known as Tr1 cells. These cells keep the Th1 imnflamitory response from getting out of control.

Here is a good description of this process:

http://www.rndsystems.com/cb_detail_objectname_cb10i2_vitamin_d_multiple_sclerosis.aspx

Here are some recent articles from the imunological community on the effect of Vitamin D on the immune system;

http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v11/n4/abs/ni.1851.html
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0006635
http://www.jimmunol.org/content/182/7/4296.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17099776
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0012925
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18200504
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19843932

Here is a company developing cell therapy for Tr1 cells:
http://www.txcell.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=145

It appears that the immunologist are way ahead of the game in terms of a cure for MS. Vitamin D and Tr1 regulatory cells seem to be the key.

Unfortunately, it does not seem like much research or attention is being focused on this in the U.S.

Hi
I am french Doctor. MD
In India I saw several times in countryside villages during humanitary missions good effects of a sort of subcutaneous absces like old " fixation absces" without pain and swelling and it seems lead to very good results , especially for auto immune deseases in animals and human . it was a mixed solution whith herbals and different kind of salts and mineralS
it seems very interseting to impove good part of immunity
Anybody heares about that method ?
Bernard
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Re: Candida and vitamin D deficiency

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 27, 2011 3:30 pm

goodtotalk wrote:Can you tell me where to find documented proof of that fact please if you would be so kind


per the livestrong link you provided, "there is no evidence that candida infections are affected in any way by vitamin D deficiency."
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Re: all things vitamin D – D3 versus D2

Postby lyndacarol » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:30 pm

Dr. Mercola discusses his views on vitamin D3 versus D2:

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/artic ... _DNL_art_1

While 8,000 IU's of vitamin D3 per day is a general recommendation that appears to be beneficial for most people, vitamin D experts from around the world are in agreement that the most important factor is your vitamin D serum level. There's no specific dosage level at which "magic" happens. So the take-home message is that you need to take whatever dosage required to obtain a therapeutic level of vitamin D in your blood.




Vitamin D3 is more potent than D2:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/96/3/E447.abstract
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