herbals

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby shye » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:25 pm

No experience with it, but it is used extensively in Europe (appproved by Commision E in Germany)--in this monograph on it,
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _74510844/

is this helpful info:
It also appears to do something no other therapy can offer--alleviate the worsening effects of OH in environmentally hot conditions.
User avatar
shye
Family Elder
 
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 4:00 pm
Location: NYC

Advertisement

Postby notasperfectasyou » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:45 am

Does anyone know about Bromelain helping with Curcumin absorption? Are there good Curcumin supplements that contain Bromelain? How much Bromelain should one take daily? Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Postby notasperfectasyou » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 am

Bioperine \ Black Pepper Extract \ Piperine might not be so good if you are ABX

Or maybe it is good? Something is going on here between Bioperine and Rifampin:

Bhardwaj. Radjinder et al. 2002 Piperine, a major constituent of black pepper, inhibits human P-glycoprotein and CYP3A4.
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Quercetin & Bromelain combo pill & Interferon beta

Postby jackD » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:23 pm

I have taking my Bromelain in a Quercetin & Bromelain combo pill for some time. I also was taking Avonex(Interferon Beta 1a) for the last 10 years with very GOOD results.
.
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/SW733/ItemDetail?n=0
.
It seemed to be a good combo at the time and this abstract seems to say it was a GREAT choice for me.!!!

jackD
.
J Neuroimmunol. 2008 Dec 15;205(1-2):142-7. Epub 2008 Oct 15.

Quercetin and interferon-beta modulate immune response(s) in peripheral blood mononuclear cells isolated from multiple sclerosis patients.
Sternberg Z, Chadha K, Lieberman A, Hojnacki D, Drake A, Zamboni P, Rocco P, Grazioli E, Weinstock-Guttman B, Munschauer F.

Department of Neurology, Baird MS Center, Jacobs Neurological Institute, Buffalo, NY 14223 , United States. zs2@buffalo.edu

The study is aimed to determine the role of quercetin (3,3'4',5,7-pentahydroxy flavone), alone and in combination with human interferon-beta (IFN-beta), in modulating the immune response(s) of peripheral blood mononuclear cells (PBMC) isolated from multiple sclerosis (MS) patients and from normal healthy subjects. PBMC proliferation in the presence or absence of these drugs was determined and the production of proinflammatory cytokines (IL-1beta, TNF-alpha), and the ratio of cell migration mediator MMP-9, and its inhibitor, TIMP-1 were assessed in the culture supernatants.

Quercetin reduced, in a dose-dependent manner, the proliferation of PBMC and modulated the level of IL-1beta and TNF-alpha released by PBMC in the culture supernatants.

Quercetin reduced the MMP-9/TIMP-1 ratio via lowering MMP-9 production.

Quercetin, when combined with IFN-beta, had additive effects in modulating TNF-alpha and MMP-9. These immunomodulatory responses to quercetin were similar between MS patients and healthy control (HC) subjects.

PMID: 18926575 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

Postby jackD » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:05 pm

Here is BY FAR THE BEST WAY to increase bio-availability of CURCUMIN(PERIOD).

I do not know if this BCM-95® is in other commercial Tumeric/Curcumin products.


http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/oct ... min_01.htm


http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... cumin.html

jackD
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

Postby notasperfectasyou » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:31 pm

The life extension products use Bioperine which might not be the best way to enhance absorption. It is A way, but might not be the best way. I promise to come back here in the coming weeks and post about this. I'm still reading about it, but Bromelain looks more promising. But, I'm still working on it .........

Ken
User avatar
notasperfectasyou
Family Elder
 
Posts: 774
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Things have changed at LEF

Postby jackD » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:27 pm

notasperfectasyou wrote:The life extension products use Bioperine which might not be the best way to enhance absorption. It is A way, but might not be the best way. I promise to come back here in the coming weeks and post about this. I'm still reading about it, but Bromelain looks more promising. But, I'm still working on it .........

Ken


LEF - Life Extension Foundation has a NEW way to enhance the absorption of turmeric/cucurmin is is called BCM-95® and it is a root extract of the plant.

They still sell a product that uses piperine to ehance absorption but they claim that the new product is superior.

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/oct ... min_01.htm

"As a result, BCM-95® is six-to seven times more bioavailable than ordinary 95% extract. Just one 400 mg dose of this new bioavailability-enhanced turmeric extract is equivalent to taking 2,772 mg of standard “95%” curcumin extract or 2,548 mg of plant-bound curcumin extract with piperine. In the Life Extension human trial, BCM-95® delivered 6.93 times more curcumin to the bloodstream than the ordinary standalone curcumin product and 6.37 times more curcumin to the bloodstream than the plant-bound curcumin extract with piperine."


jackD
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

Cacao

Postby gibbledygook » Sat Feb 13, 2010 10:53 am

I have twice now noted a deterioration in symptoms when increasing consumption of cacao. I just found some interesting articles which might be relevant to this deterioration:

Br J Nutr. 2009 Apr;101(7):931-40. Epub 2009 Jan 6.

Cocoa: antioxidant and immunomodulator.
Ramiro-Puig E, Castell M.

Department of Physiology, Faculty of Pharmacy, University of Barcelona, Av. Joan XXIII s/n 08028, Barcelona, Spain.

Cocoa, a product consumed since 600 BC, is now a subject of increasing interest because of its antioxidant properties, which are mainly attributed to the content of flavonoids such as ( - )-epicatechin, catechin and procyanidins. Moreover, recent findings suggest a regulatory effect of cocoa on the immune cells implicated in innate and acquired immunity. Cocoa exerts regulatory activity on the secretion of inflammatory mediators from macrophages and other leucocytes in vitro. In addition, emerging data from in vivo studies support an immunomodulating effect. Long-term cocoa intake in rats affects both intestinal and systemic immune function. Studies in this line suggest that high-dose cocoa intake in young rats favours the T helper 1 (Th1) response and increases intestinal gammadelta T lymphocyte count, whereas the antibody-secreting response decreases. The mechanisms involved in this activity are uncertain; nonetheless, because redox-sensitive pathways control immune cell function, the action of cocoa flavonoids on modulating cell signalling and gene expression deserves investigation.

PMID: 19126261 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link


Br J Nutr. 2009 Jul;102(2):215-20. Epub 2008 Dec 23.

Iron bioavailability of cocoa powder as determined by the Hb regeneration efficiency method.
Yokoi K, Konomi A, Otagi M.

Department of Human Nutrition, Seitoku University Graduate School, 550 Iwase, Matsudo, Chiba 271-8555, Japan. KatsuhikoY@aol.com

Fe deficiency is a public-health problem worldwide, and effective measures for preventing Fe deficiency are needed. The aim of the present study was to determine the bioavailability of Fe in cocoa using the Hb regeneration efficiency (HRE) method. Thirty-five F344/N male weanling rats were fed a low-Fe diet for 4 weeks to deplete body Fe stores. Then, four groups of seven animals each were repleted for 20 d using a modified AIN-93G diet fortified with ferrous sulphate, ferric citrate or two brands of cocoa powder to provide a total dietary Fe concentration of 20 mg/kg. As a negative control, seven rats were maintained on the low-Fe diet. The HRE were 0.733, 0.350, 0.357 and 0.336 for ferrous sulphate, ferric citrate and the two brands of cocoa powder, respectively. The relative biological values (RBV), defined as the ratio of the sample HRE to that of ferrous sulphate, were 0.478, 0.488 and 0.459 for ferric citrate and the two brands of cocoa powder, respectively. The Fe bioavailability of cocoa was significantly less than that of ferrous sulphate and was similar to that of ferric citrate. The difference in Fe bioavailability between the two brands of cocoa powder was negligible. When the negative control was used to correct the data, estimates of the RBV derived from Hb gain were similar to those derived from the HRE. These results suggest that cocoa is a significant source of moderately bioavailable Fe.

PMID: 19102811 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link

increasing th1 response and iron load sounds a pretty bad combo. And cacao dilates the vasculature and lowers blood pressure. Mine are both currently highly dilated and low due to pregnancy so it seems as though enhancing these aspects is a bad idea.
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
User avatar
gibbledygook
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: London

Postby gibbledygook » Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:03 am

I am really not liking the look of cocoa/cacao now. It seems to upregulate cells which may not be good in MS.


Mol Nutr Food Res. 2009 Mar;53(3):389-97.

Influence of a cocoa-enriched diet on specific immune response in ovalbumin-sensitized rats.
Pérez-Berezo T, Ramiro-Puig E, Pérez-Cano FJ, Castellote C, Permanyer J, Franch A, Castell M.

Department of Physiology, Faculty of Pharmacy, University of Barcelona, Barcelona, Spain.

Previous studies in young rats have reported the impact of 3 weeks of high cocoa intake on healthy immune status. The present article describes the effects of a longer-term cocoa-enriched diet (9 weeks) on the specific immune response to ovalbumin (OVA) in adult Wistar rats. At 4 weeks after immunization, control rats produced anti-OVA antibodies, which, according their amount and isotype, were arranged as follows: IgG1 > IgG2a > IgM > IgG2b > IgG2c. Both cocoa diets studied (4% and 10%) down-modulated OVA-specific antibody levels of IgG1 (main subclass associated with the Th2 immune response in rats), IgG2a, IgG2c and IgM isotypes. Conversely, cocoa-fed rats presented equal or higher levels of anti-OVA IgG2b antibodies (subclass linked to the Th1 response). Spleen and lymph node cells from OVA-immunized control and cocoa-fed animals proliferated similarly under OVA stimulation. However, spleen cells from cocoa-fed animals showed decreased interleukin-4 secretion (main Th2 cytokine), and lymph node cells from the same rats displayed higher interferon-gamma secretion (main Th1 cytokine). These changes were accompanied by a reduction in the number of anti-OVA IgG-secreting cells in spleen. In conclusion, cocoa diets induced attenuation of antibody synthesis that may be attributable to specific down-regulation of the Th2 immune response.

PMID: 18925611 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link


Ann Neurol. 2009 Sep;66(3):390-402.

Preferential recruitment of interferon-gamma-expressing T H 17 cells in multiple sclerosis.
Kebir H, Ifergan I, Alvarez JI, Bernard M, Poirier J, Arbour N, Duquette P, Prat A.

Neuroimmunology Research Unit, Center for Excellence in Neuromics, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

OBJECTIVE: There is substantial evidence supporting the role of interferon (IFN)-gamma-producing T helper (T(H)) 1 and interleukin (IL)-17-expressing T(H)17 lymphocytes in multiple sclerosis (MS) and its animal model, experimental allergic encephalomyelitis (EAE). However, to date little is known about the potential cooperative interplay between these 2 cytokines. In the current study, we sought to evaluate the frequency of IFN-gamma-expressing T(H)17 lymphocytes in MS and EAE, and study their recruitment into the central nervous system (CNS). METHODS: Human T(H)17 lymphocytes were expanded in vitro from the blood of healthy controls and relapsing MS patients using IL-23. Immune cell migration to the CNS was assessed in vitro with primary cultures of human blood-brain barrier (BBB)-derived endothelial cells, and in vivo in EAE mice. RESULTS: We demonstrate that in response to IL-23, human memory lymphocytes expand into a T(H)17 phenotype, with a subpopulation of cells simultaneously expressing IFN-gamma and IL-17. We note that lymphocytes obtained from the blood of relapsing MS patients have an increased propensity to expand into IFN-gamma-producing T(H)17 cells and identify numerous T lymphocytes coexpressing IL-17 and IFN-gamma in brain tissue of MS patients. We also find lymphocytes expressing both the T(H)1- and the T(H)17-associated transcription factors ROR gamma t and T-bet, in situ and in vitro. We further provide in vitro and in vivo evidence that IFN-gamma(+) T(H)17 lymphocytes preferentially cross the human BBB and accumulate in the CNS of mice during the effector phase of EAE. INTERPRETATION: Our data underscore the involvement of IFN-gamma(+) T(H)17 lymphocytes in the pathology of MS and EAE and their preferential recruitment into the CNS during inflammatory events.

PMID: 19810097 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link





J Nutr Biochem. 2008 Aug;19(8):555-65. Epub 2007 Dec 3.

Intestinal immune system of young rats influenced by cocoa-enriched diet.
Ramiro-Puig E, Pérez-Cano FJ, Ramos-Romero S, Pérez-Berezo T, Castellote C, Permanyer J, Franch A, Izquierdo-Pulido M, Castell M.

Department of Physiology, Faculty of Pharmacy, University of Barcelona, 08028 Barcelona, Spain.

Gut-associated lymphoid tissue (GALT) maintains mucosal homeostasis by counteracting pathogens and inducing a state of nonresponsiveness when it receives signals from food antigens and commensal bacteria. We report for the first time the influence of continuous cocoa consumption on GALT function in rats postweaning. Weaned Wistar rats were fed cocoa-enriched diets (4% or 10% food intake) for 3 weeks. The function of the primary inductive sites of GALT, such as Peyer's patches (PP) and mesenteric lymph nodes (MLN), was evaluated through an analysis of IgA-secretory ability and lymphocyte composition (T, B and natural killer cells), activation (IL-2 secretion and IL-2 receptor alpha expression) and proliferation. T-helper effector cell balance was also established based on cytokine profile (interferon gamma, IL-4 and IL-10) after mitogen activation. A 10% cocoa intake induced significant changes in PP and MLN lymphocyte composition and function, whereas a 4% cocoa diet did not cause significant modifications in either tissues. Cocoa diet strongly reduced secretory IgA (S-IgA) in the intestinal lumen, although IgA's secretory ability was only slightly decreased in PP. In addition, the 10% cocoa diet increased T-cell-antigen receptor gammadelta cell proportion in both lymphoid tissues. Thus, cocoa intake modulates intestinal immune responses in young rats, influencing gammadelta T-cells and S-IgA production.

PMID: 18061430 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
link
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
User avatar
gibbledygook
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: London

Postby ikulo » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:00 am

This is very interesting. There is actually a study trying to link cocoa to MS, though the text of the study isn't available on PubMed, but here is the abstract.

Multiple sclerosis and possible relationship to cocoa: a hypothesis.

Maas AG, Hogenhuis LA.

The hypothesis presented in this paper suggests that MS may be caused by an allergic or other adverse reaction to certain foods, mostly cocoa products, cola, and coffee. Many MS patients have one or more manifestations of other well known reactions to those foods, such as migraine, urticaria, or gastrointestinal disturbances.

PMID: 2955724 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



I have to admit that I was a huge chocolate junkie before my diagnosis.
User avatar
ikulo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: colorado

Postby jackD » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:39 pm

ikulo wrote:This is very interesting. There is actually a study trying to link cocoa to MS, though the text of the study isn't available on PubMed, but here is the abstract.

Multiple sclerosis and possible relationship to cocoa: a hypothesis.

Maas AG, Hogenhuis LA.

The hypothesis presented in this paper suggests that MS may be caused by an allergic or other adverse reaction to certain foods, mostly cocoa products, cola, and coffee. Many MS patients have one or more manifestations of other well known reactions to those foods, such as migraine, urticaria, or gastrointestinal disturbances.

PMID: 2955724 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



I have to admit that I was a huge chocolate junkie before my diagnosis.


I think I know why that hypothesis from 1987 has never been proven.

jackD

Ann Allergy. 1987 Jul;59(1):76-9.

Multiple sclerosis and possible relationship to cocoa: a hypothesis.
Maas AG, Hogenhuis LA.

The hypothesis presented in this paper suggests that MS may be caused by an allergic or other adverse reaction to certain foods, mostly cocoa products, cola, and coffee. Many MS patients have one or more manifestations of other well known reactions to those foods, such as migraine, urticaria, or gastrointestinal disturbances.

PMID: 2955724 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

Postby jackD » Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:34 am

The quantities of cocoa given to these rats was a very high amount. I doubt that anyone would have cocoa as that high a percent of their total diet.

I also doubt that anyone would be taking cocoa to cure or treat their MS.

I have posted that NOT ALL flavonoids help MS folks. Of the 45,000 flavonoids known only those that share certain common structures seem to help.

I have about 4 pieces of dark chocolate with about a 72% cocoa content each day with my green/white tea.

I get nothing but pure enjoyment from the consumption experience.

jackD
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

Postby gibbledygook » Mon Feb 22, 2010 6:11 am

I think in relatively modest doses chocolate is probably fine but I was drinking about 60grams a day of 100% pure, unsweetened organic cacao as a replacement for my cafe latte at the start of pregnancy. I also had a few bites of sweeter dark chocolate here and there. Several days after starting this daily drink consumption my walking deteriorated. So I stopped the cacao and my walking then improved. I discovered I was pregnant and resumed cacao in more modest quantities. Gradually modest turned to moderate! My walking again got worse. Initially I thought this was just pregnancy. About 3 weeks ago I started drinking greedy quantities of cacao. An array of old symptoms almost immediately flared up. Within 48 hours of stopping cacao they had calmed down again.
I don't want to put people off modest cacao consumption but I really wouldn't recommend drinking 100s of grams of 100% cacao on a daily basis, perhaps especially if one is pregnant! Cacao is very iron rich and clearly modulates the immune system in ways which may very well not be beneficial to people with MS. I'm sure it's extremely healthy for those with cardio-vascular issues.
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
User avatar
gibbledygook
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1412
Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:00 pm
Location: London

Postby ikulo » Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:09 pm

jackD wrote:
I have posted that NOT ALL flavonoids help MS folks. Of the 45,000 flavonoids known only those that share certain common structures seem to help.

jackD


Interesting! Could you point me to some of your posts regarding this information or to other sources?
User avatar
ikulo
Family Elder
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:00 pm
Location: colorado

Postby jackD » Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:12 pm

ikulo wrote:
jackD wrote:
I have posted that NOT ALL flavonoids help MS folks. Of the 45,000 flavonoids known only those that share certain common structures seem to help.

jackD


Interesting! Could you point me to some of your posts regarding this information or to other sources?


Ikulo

This is my latest on this subject...

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-10225.html

jackD
User avatar
jackD
Family Elder
 
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 3:00 pm
Location: Near Wash DC

PreviousNext

Return to Natural Approach

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users