herbals

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Capsaicin?

Postby NHE » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:36 am

I have recently read that capsaicin cream is recommended for pain due to diabetic neuropathy. I was wondering if anyone has tried this for neuropathic pain due to MS? I would love to get rid of the pain in my foot. I've had it now for the last 11 years. Any other suggestions would also be appreciated. I know that some people take neurontin which is gabapentin, but I was also wondering if anyone has tried gaba (gamma amino butyric acid) which is available as a supplement?

Thanks, NHE
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Researcher expands understanding of marijuana’s impact

Postby MSUK » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:12 am

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Postby concerned » Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:31 am

I think that should be balanced against THC's anti-carcinogenic properties. Does this study take into account the expanding gases in the lungs that have been traditionally pegged as the carcinogenic factors in pot smoking.


One of my doctors once told me about a study that "proved" that smoking pot caused testicular cancer. Apparently, they asked ten people with testicular cancer and ten people without if they smoked pot, and discovered that smoking pot caused testicular cancer... Tell that to Tom Green.

(when I saw Tom Green recently he said that he started smoking pot after he got testicular cancer, and that his illness was due to masturbation.) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: 8)
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Postby elliberato » Tue Dec 07, 2010 10:09 am

TAKE Willy Nelson's advice and use a hot box vaporizer. Nearly most of the "bad" stuff is not ingested this way but the "good" stuff is!
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Postby lyndacarol » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:10 pm

Many interesting aspects to cacao/chocolate have been posted here in this thread. Certainly each could be very involved with MS.

After a little more reading on chocolate, I think theobromine is one more substance to consider. Theobromine is the primary methylxanthine found in products of the cocoa tree (theophylline is the primary methylxanthine in tea). It is mildly diuretic (increases urine production), is a mild stimulant, and relaxes the smooth muscles of the bronchi in the lungs (Why not muscles elsewhere as well in the body?)

Theobromine levels are higher in dark chocolates; cocoa beans contain highly variable amounts of theobromine – from 300-1200 mg/ounce. Gibbledygook, could it be that you were consuming a very high amount?

Since Cheerleader posted elsewhere articles reporting an endothelial effect, could this be the result of theobromine relaxing the smooth muscles of the blood vessels?

Smooth muscle involvement (around the bladder, intestines, blood vessels, with spasms, feelings of constricting bands, the "MS hug," tremors, etc.) seems often to be apparent before nerve or lesion events appear. As I have reminded you, excess insulin thickens and stiffens smooth muscles.

Occasional dark chocolate might be good for several reasons.
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:45 pm

I found that salvia miltiorrhiza which is similar in action to ginkgo biloba to be effective at reducing pain. When I first started taking the herb I took about 600mg but it was only when I increased the dosage several fold that I noticed within an hour or so of consumption that the burning pain in my leg had virtually vanished. I then experimented with the herb in a wild and rash fashion and learnt that ongoing higher dosages are counter-productive for walking and spasms etc but a maintenance dose of 500mg every few days is sufficient. The herb is powerful and used frequently in Chinese medicine. It thins the blood with anti-platelet activity, it inhibits endothelin 1 and therefore dilates the blood vessels and it inhibits some of the matrix metalloproteinases involved in the inflammation in MS. It was this herb's effects that convinced me that MS is largely vascular in etiology. Shortly afterwards I was on the flight to Stanford...

Capsaicin never helped with my pain much but did help with spasticity when taken in rather high dosages of maybe a couple of grams (with unfortunate bowel consequences!). See below. Hope this helps!



Eur J Pharmacol. 2002 Mar 29;439(1-3):83-92.

Arvanil-induced inhibition of spasticity and persistent pain: evidence for therapeutic sites of action different from the vanilloid VR1 receptor and cannabinoid CB(1)/CB(2) receptors.
Brooks JW, Pryce G, Bisogno T, Jaggar SI, Hankey DJ, Brown P, Bridges D, Ledent C, Bifulco M, Rice AS, Di Marzo V, Baker D.

Pain Research Group, Department of Anaesthetics, Faculty of Medicine, Imperial College, Chelsea and Westminster Hospital Campus, London, UK.

Abstract
Activation of cannabinoid receptors causes inhibition of spasticity, in a mouse model of multiple sclerosis, and of persistent pain, in the rat formalin test. The endocannabinoid anandamide inhibits spasticity and persistent pain. It not only binds to cannabinoid receptors but is also a full agonist at vanilloid receptors of type 1 (VR1). We found here that vanilloid VR1 receptor agonists (capsaicin and N-N'-(3-methoxy-4-aminoethoxy-benzyl)-(4-tert-butyl-benzyl)-urea [SDZ-249-665]) exhibit a small, albeit significant, inhibition of spasticity that can be attenuated by the vanilloid VR1 receptor antagonist, capsazepine. Arvanil, a structural "hybrid" between capsaicin and anandamide, was a potent inhibitor of spasticity at doses (e.g. 0.01 mg/kg i.v.) where capsaicin and cannabinoid CB(1) receptor agonists were ineffective. The anti-spastic effect of arvanil was unchanged in cannabinoid CB(1) receptor gene-deficient mice or in wildtype mice in the presence of both cannabinoid and vanilloid receptor antagonists. Likewise, arvanil (0.1-0.25 mg/kg) exhibited a potent analgesic effect in the formalin test, which was not reversed by cannabinoid and vanilloid receptor antagonists. These findings suggest that activation by arvanil of sites of action different from cannabinoid CB(1)/CB(2) receptors and vanilloid VR1 receptors leads to anti-spastic/analgesic effects that might be exploited therapeutically.

PMID: 11937096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11937096
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:50 pm

Well, I'm glutton for a punishment. In the cold, dark wintry days I've found myself drinking cacao with skinny milk again and once more I've noticed an improvement in symptoms since stopping this pernicious activity a week ago...Cacao for whatever reasons is poison to my MS. This is the only foodstuff which I have noticed a reaction to.
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby bananana » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:48 pm

Bender -

Everyone's different but I find that the herb definitely helps with pain and spasms for me. And it helps me reduce stress :wink: I'd say if it helps you, stick with it
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Postby Algis » Sat Dec 11, 2010 12:06 am

My experience with herb is limited; as I tried but have been excessively sick each time (not MS kind of sick; but nausea, throwing up, indigestion, diarrhea...).

Beside; the idea of starting to smoke seems a bit contradictory to me trying to stay healthy.

Wasn't Sativex supposed to do the same - Without the smoking and legal problem? But I can't judge since we do not have Sativex here.

Just my tuppence, be well all; whatever suite you :)
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Postby Bender » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:53 pm

Actually the articles I've read about it with regards to MS have been in reference to a cannibanoid, which is one of the chemical compounds found in smaller percentages, not the THC which is the main active ingredient and what is in Sativex.
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Postby concerned » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:56 pm

Algis wrote:Wasn't Sativex supposed to do the same - Without the smoking and legal problem? But I can't judge since we do not have Sativex here.


My mother didn't find sativex very helpful, and found cesamet overpoweringly strong. One or two hits on a joint does provide her some relief some of the time.


If your worried about the smoking angle there's a plethora of other ways of "administering medicine", such as vapes, brownies, green dragon, etc.

Many of the medical marijuana advocates claims aren't proven in anyway. Both of my parents have used marijuana medically and reported some benefit, but they've also used marijuana recreationally and reported some grooviness.


As far as risk factors go, it is one of the safest drugs you can imagine.
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Postby dignan » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:29 am

Bender, the big thing going on with cannabinoid research these days is the CUPID clinical trial in the UK. They actually have a really good website:

http://sites.pcmd.ac.uk/cnrg/cupid.php
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GLA is not Linoleic acid

Postby yigalby » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:16 pm

jimmylegs wrote:from world's healthiest foods site:
Linoleic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid which is plentiful in the diet of most Americans. This fat is found in at high levels in oils from grains, nuts and legumes, and is often provided in your diet by sunflower, safflower, sesame, corn, soy, and peanut oils. In the body, linoleic acid is first converted to another omega-6 fat called gamma-linolenic acid, which is also found in evening primrose oil and borage oil.



i`m natural healer form israel.
and i work with evening primrose oil (EPO) for the last 4 years.
it work so good in many conditions(cholesterol,baldnessanxiety,pms,acne,skin problems..).
i use fresh flower and leaves soaked in olive oil.
the leaves is BtW acording to dr duke is the best source of natural quercetin.
and its known by some herbalist here to help with MS

i think it worth trying

best
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sambucus nigra

Postby yigalby » Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:27 pm

is one of the best safest anti viral anti-flu herb.
been used from early days,been in every house in euorpe .
read about it and you would see.
and its good small tree to put on your garden just grab some root from other plant - like cold wehter but coulg grow well in some hotter places
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Re: GLA is not Linoleic acid

Postby NHE » Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:54 pm

yigalby wrote:i work with evening primrose oil (EPO) for the last 4 years.
it work so good in many conditions (cholesterol, baldnessanxiety, pms, acne, skin problems..).
i use fresh flower and leaves soaked in olive oil.
the leaves is BtW acording to dr duke is the best source of natural quercetin.
and its known by some herbalist here to help with MS


Whole green tea also contains quercitin which is not surprising as it is structurally related to epicatechin. Though, I do not yet know the amount of quercitin present in green tea.

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