herbals

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby renrank » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:42 pm

The treatment for each individual would be different since she uses pulse points, muscle reflexology and magnet kinesiology. I am on sever different herbs, all by Vaidya Mishra's Optimum Intelligence, including Prakrit, Apana Agni Balance, Wild Amla, Regenerve, and Trenev Trio. I also drink a tea several times a week which includes Immuno Correct, Devil's Apple, Bacopa, and Tulsi leaves. I am currently using topical cremes which are DGL and Brahmi creme. I use liver clay a few times a week, but that is only temporary. I have been doing coconut oil massages which help to remove toxins from the surface of your skin, and also give you healthy oils direcly into your body. I have incorporated fresh cilantro wherever I can, I use ghee to cook with, along with Tumeric. I am eating whole grains such as barley, millet, and quinoa in place of any wheat products. I am also eating dark, leafy greens such as collards and kale. It is alos important to incorporate whole milk into the diet... best to use the unhomogenized one from whol foods, but organic, from grass fed cows is an ok substitution. Like I said, everyone has a program specific to his or her own needs. Hope this helps.
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Postby notasperfectasyou » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:50 pm

Welcome to TIMS!

You'll find that folks here are generally skeptical of the "absolutely amazing". It's the nature of having been here with MS for a long time.

Your story is interesting, but lacking in substance. Can you explain how these treatments changed your MS? Meaning, can your holistic doctor explain what the treatments do in terms that relate to what is known about MS? For example, does this treatment lead to the protection of myelin? and if so, how?

The goal here is to fully comprehend the cause and effect relationship of the therapy so we can more fully understand it in relation to the huge body of knowledge that has been documented here at TIMS.

Thank you for sharing your experience here. napay
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Postby jackD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:51 am

How Green Tea's EGCG helps the MS situation has recently been published. It is in my web storage area shown below.

jackD


http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/egcg-neorond-ms.pdf
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Postby gwa » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:35 am

jack,

How much of the green tea extract do you take daily? I was going to order some and the description said each tablet was the equivalent of three cups of green tea. I thought that strength was too weak, but didn't know what was the suggested strength to take.

The article was helpful. Thanks for posting it.

gwa
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Postby jackD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:16 am

I take two caps of LEF's "Mega Green Tea extract".

One is Decaffeinated and one is lightly Caffeinated.

http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00954.html

http://www.lef.org/newshop/items/item00953.html

In addition I have a mug of Green, White and Black tea twice each day.

The EGCG in each cap is 326.25 mg. My mug would add another 200 mg. So I would exopect that I am getting my goal of around 12 cups of tea each day.

jackD

p.s. The green tea really lowers mmp-9s.
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green tea & mmp-9s

Postby jackD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:35 am

1: Biochim Biophys Acta. 2000 Mar 16;1478(1):51-60.

Matrix metalloproteinase inhibition by green tea catechins.

Demeule M, Brossard M, Page M, Gingras D, Beliveau R.

Laboratoire de Medecine Moleculaire, Hopital Sainte-Justine - UQAM, C.P. 8888, Succursale centre-ville, Montreal, QC, Canada.

We have investigated the effects of different biologically active components from natural products, including green tea polyphenols (GTP), resveratrol, genistein and organosulfur compounds from garlic, on matrix metalloproteinase (MMP)-2, MMP-9 and MMP-12 activities. GTP caused the strongest inhibition of the three enzymes, as measured by fluorescence assays using gelatin or elastin as substrates. The inhibition of MMP-2 and MMP-9 caused by GTP was confirmed by gelatin zymography and was observed for MMPs associated with both various rat tissues and human brain tumors (glioblastoma and pituitary tumors). The activities of MMPs were also measured in the presence of various catechins isolated from green tea including (-)-epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG), (-)-epicatechin gallate(ECG), (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC), (-)-epicatechin (EC) and (+)-catechin (C). The most potent inhibitors of these activities, as measured by fluorescence and by gelatin or casein zymography, were EGCG and ECG. GTP and the different catechins had no effect on pancreatic elastase, suggesting that the effects of these molecules on MMP activities are specific.

Furthermore, in vitro activation of proMMP-2 secreted from the glioblastomas cell line U-87 by the lectin concanavalin A was completely inhibited by GTP and specifically by EGCG. These results indicate that catechins from green tea inhibit MMP activities and proMMP-2 activation.

PMID: 10719174 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Postby gwa » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:43 am

jack,

If I drank that much tea I would be in the bathroom most of the day.


gwa
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Postby jackD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:17 pm

Yep!

That is why one takes the extracts!

The extracts are necessary to get the amount necessary.

Any other comments or is that your whole analysis of the EGCG topic I presented?

Some real idiots think that having a cup or two of green tea will cure them.

Others will simple drink the 12 cups of tea and piss piss piss all day.

Many meds are simply great concentrations of what is present in little amounts in some natural substances.

I wonder how many pounds of tree bark one would eat to get 325 MG of Aspirin?

jackD
Last edited by jackD on Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby gwa » Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:54 pm

jack,

I have been reading your posts and other sources analyzing the green tea extracts. There appears to be little doubt of the therapeutic value of the extracts. Until rather recently, however, the FDA was discounting the claims of the value of the extracts. I think a lot of research has come out within the last two years with documentation that does point to their value.

Please don't get your knickers in a knot, because there are a lot of us that have a whole brain operational too.

The peeing comment related to the 6 cups of tea that you consume in addition to the supplements. Next time I will use the smiley icon so you know I am not serious.

gwa
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Postby jackD » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:22 pm

I was a bit excessive in my comment and attitude.

But I did not say that I drink 6 cups of tea. I have two LARGE cups of tea that contains three tea bags (white, green and black). The white tea has lots of flavonoids 195 mg.

Here is some more info on flavonoids and MS on my web storage area.

Abstract:

1: Biochem Pharmacol 2003 Mar 1;65(5):877-85

Flavonoids inhibit myelin phagocytosis by macrophages; a structure-activity relationship study.

Hendriks JJ, de Vries HE, van der Pol SM, van den Berg TK, van Tol EA, Dijkstra
CD.

Department of Molecular Cell Biology, VU Medical Centre, Van der Boechorststraat
7, 1081 BT, Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

Demyelination is a characteristic hallmark of the neuro-inflammatory disease multiple sclerosis. During demyelination, macrophages phagocytose myelin and secrete inflammatory mediators that worsen the disease. Here, we investigated whether flavonoids, naturally occurring immunomodulating compounds, are able to influence myelin phagocytosis by macrophages in vitro. The flavonoids luteolin, quercetin and fisetin most significantly decreased the amount of myelin phagocytosed by a macrophage cell line without affecting its viability. IC(50) values for these compounds ranged from 20 to 80 microM.

:D The flavonoid structure appeared to be essential for observed effects as flavonoids containing hydroxyl groups at the B-3 and B-4 positions in combination with a C-2,3 double bond were most effective.

The capacity of the various flavonoids to inhibit phagocytosis correlated well with their potency as antioxidant, which is in line with the requirement of reactive oxygen species for the phagocytosis of myelin by macrophages.

Our results implicate that flavonoids may be able to limit the demyelination process during multiple sclerosis.

PMID: 12628496 [PubMed - in process]


Full text:

<shortened url>
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Postby robbie » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:45 am

Been smoking mj now for about six months, just in the evening and it has really helped my pain. I guess now that’s it’s in my system it’s pretty much constant relief. I have been able to cut back on the codeine I take also. Between the two I am pain free. My biggest problem now is that I really have to fight to stand with my walker for than say 30 seconds (not even). Mj is a blessing for me not just for the pain but it helps my bladder and really relaxes my leg muscles, it’s hard not to have it all day but for now it makes the night time a lot more tolerable.
Had ms for over 19 years now.
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Postby Loobie » Sat Sep 08, 2007 2:58 pm

I hear what you are saying Robbie. Work has always been enough of a distraction for me to ignore some things during the day, but on the weekends, there aren't those demands that keep me distracted and I wish I could smoke during the day. It just saps my energy after about 2-3 hours now so much that I pretty much wait until 8 or 9 to light up. Then I feel soooo much better. I think I'm preaching to the choir here, but what a find this drug has been for me in terms of calming my nervous system down.
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Postby robbie » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:10 pm

It seems to bring reality a little closer but much easier to accept..
Had ms for over 19 years now.
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Postby Loobie » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:39 pm

It takes one to know one friend. That's exactly the feeling I get sometimes as well. A little more of a "screw it" attitude which results in a general acceptance of what's going on.
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SuniMS Study

Postby Shayk » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:07 pm

Just discovered there's a trial in Germany using the green tea extract EGCG.

Sunphenon EGCg (Epigallocatechin-Gallate) in Relapsing-Remitting Multiple Sclerosis (SuniMS Study)

It's being combined with Copaxone and they're using the standard lesion load outcome measure, but they're also using brain atrophy as a secondary outcome measure. That should provide some info about whether or not it provides neuroprotection. :)

Sharon
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