all things magnesium

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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:11 am

hi adam sorry i missed this one for so long.

i would say 2 of your calcium pills per day would be appropriate.

also, i really couldn't say if the diluted oil would be a passable substitute for pills. if you can get two large servings of dark leafy greens (cooked or raw) into you each day, that is a great start. supplements and/or oil to augment are only needed if your serum Mg level is below .9 mmol/L:

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-56317.html#56317
Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 23, No. 6, 730S-731S (2004)
About the Misdiagnosis of Magnesium Deficiency
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/23/6/730S
Quote:
...In patients with Mg serum values lower than 0.9 mmol/l Mg, magnesium supplementation is recommended; for patients with values lower than 0.8 mmol/l, starting Mg supplementation is necessary. We recommend that a Mg serum value of 0.9 mmol/l Mg be considered as the lower reference limit, in evaluating symptoms or diseases suspected as being associated with Mg deficiency. In this case, Mg has to be used as a first choice therapy. When symptoms of the MDS are found, patients with serum values of less than 0.8 mmol/l Mg, or better 0.9 mmol/l Mg, ... [not automatically] normomagnesemic.


hope that helps!

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Postby shye » Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:43 am

Just came across this thread--
Adam,

the glycinate form of mg that I take is Doctor's Best, and it specifically states on the label the amt of elemental mg that you get per tablet (100 per tablet).
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Magnesium Potassium Aspartate supplement - ok for MS/CCSVI?

Postby adamt » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:47 am

Hi,
Im thinking of taking this Magnesium Potassium Aspartate supplement as it has a range of different forms of Magnesium, as currently i only take 400mg of Magnesium oxide with 800mg Calicum (aboth in one tablet) every day
this product - <shortened url>


this is the Magnesium Potassium Aspartate im looking at buying:

<shortened url>


So i was wondering if anyone knew if Potassium is in anyway bad for MS patients or CCSVI patient,

i have SPMS and have CCSVI - IJVs, and May Thurner

thank you
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:07 pm

hi adam, i'd think magnesium and potassium would be good (they work together) but not necessarily the aspartate.

maybe see if you can find magnesium glycinate. or, bisglycinate. it's easy on the GI tract compared to magnesium oxide. also you could benefit from the glycine, but you don't necessarily want to be putting supplemental aspartic acid into your system.

HTH!
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Postby adamt » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:14 am

ok thanks jimmylegs,

but why is mag/potassium Aspartate not advised?

is it just because it more work for the difgestiive system?

or does the aspartate effect the venous system or nerv ous system?
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:11 pm

yvw! intro to aspartate neurotoxicity:

http://ats.ctsnetjournals.org/cgi/conte ... /70/5/1496

Considerable evidence exists that neurotoxicity of excitatory amino acids is related to the neuronal injury, including paraplegia. However, little is known about aspartate neurotoxicity in the spinal cord in vivo. We evaluated the detrimental effects of exogenous aspartate on spinal cord neurons under metabolic stress.
...Group A animals (n = 7) received segmental aspartate 50 mmol/L) infusion for 10 minutes.
...Group A animals exhibited paraplegia or paraparesis with marked neuronal necrosis.
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Postby adamt » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:28 am

ok, in that case i dont want to take the risk of neurotoxicity by taking mag/pot asparate

i couldnt find any mag/pot glycinate. or, bisglycinate, but i found a mag/pot chelates product:

<shortened url>

is this one ok for MS/CCSVI?


i also read this about potassium which sounds interesting:

The regulation of the sodium-potassium pump helps ensure a healthy electrical charge within the cell. During nerve transmission and muscle contraction, potassium leaves the cell and sodium enters resulting in a change in the electrical charge.

http://www.organicfoodee.com/vms/potassium-magcit/

thanks JL[/b]
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Postby adamt » Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:38 am

so is this Magnesium Potassium Chelates supplement ok for CCSVI/MS ?

thank you :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Nov 11, 2010 5:15 pm

looks okay, but magnesium chelated as glycinate is the best one i know about so far and is not included in the list on the krebs product info. i don't think it would hurt but if you find yourself getting the runs, you'd know you have the wrong kind of magnesium!
HTH
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Postby adamt » Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:38 am

thanks JL
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:20 am

since this has been bumped, as i re-read i'm reminded that glycine is a recommended component of the klenner protocol for ms.

http://www.townsendletter.com/Klenner/klenner4.htm
15) Aminoacetic acid (glycine): Glycine enters into a variety of metabolic functions. It is directly concerned in the synthesis of glutathione, the tripeptide which plays an important part in intracellular oxidation and reduction. Rapport and Katz have shown that when glycine is added to perfused muscle, the oxygen absorption is 40% higher than otherwise, indicating that the presence of this amino acid stimulates the combustion of other tissue constituents. To the body in general, glycine is no doubt most important because of its wide adaptability in the detoxicating process of the body. More than one hundred substances, when fed, are joined in the body with glycine. In the deamination of glycine, three products will be formed: ammonia, carbon dioxide and water. The ammonia from this reaction is then quantitatively converted to urea. One heaping tablespoon of the powder in a glass of milk four times each day. Much of the oral medication can be taken with this drink.

you'd have to have adequate zinc status for the conversion of ammonia to urea. in addition to the scientific literature on the subject, i have personal experience with documented labwork supporting that statement.

i searched glycine foods at nutritiondata.com and gelatin is coming back a winner, chicken breast looks good too.. ostrich.. shrimp/crab/crayfish... etc

http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000 ... 00000.html
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Magnesium "Rules"

Postby LoveActually » Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:57 pm

I hope I'm not repeating a question. I saw an earlier post regarding magnesium but this is a bit different.

I'm not a big meds person but I have recently started taking Neurontin for pain. It's a 15-day gradual increase ending at 600mg 3x a day, I'm currently on day 9. I have been doing some reading and although I haven't found any long-term side effects from taking Neurontin, I'm still a bit iffy about it.

I have read that Magnesium can offer the same benefits thats Neurontin does. Anyone know if that's true? I also read that most people are deficient in Magnesium, true? I'd like to avoid another visit to my GP and another poke if at all possible.

If Magnesium is something that will be beneficial to me, whether it kills the pain or not, what do I need to know about it? What kind/type/amount should I take? Right now my plan is to follow through with this Neurontin schedule and see if I am relieved of pain at the full dosage. If it works, then great, we know it's neuropathic pain. Right now, no such luck of finding relief. And if it doesn't work, I plan on tapering off of it and kissing it goodbye.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
October 29, 2009 - Dx with RRMS
June 22, 2010 - Dx's changed to Devic's (NMO)
January 4, 2011 - Dx w/Syringomyelia T4-T9, Migraines, and Possible MS (again - long story)
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:57 pm

LA, i'll get back to you!
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Postby LoveActually » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:28 pm

Thanks!
October 29, 2009 - Dx with RRMS
June 22, 2010 - Dx's changed to Devic's (NMO)
January 4, 2011 - Dx w/Syringomyelia T4-T9, Migraines, and Possible MS (again - long story)
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:21 am

ok hi again LA!

yes magnesium is beneficial.

the reference range is 0.70 to 1.10 mmol/L but research has identified 0.90 mmol/L as a more appropriate minimum level for optimal health.

i supplement to keep my level above 0.90 and i can feel it in my muscles when i drop into the .80s.

the best form i have found to date is magnesium glycinate. or bisglycinate. at first i preferred carson's magnesium glycinate tablets. just because they were the first ones i managed to find.

now i prefer new roots magnesium bisglycinate because it is powder in a capsule, which just says better absorption to me. UPDATE: it was too much absorption, i had a year of woeful side effects from taking mag bisglycinate on an empty stomach at bed time. it took me a year to realize that this form of mag supplement was giving me a horrific acid reflux cough resulting at first in lost time at work, sleepless nights, dry heaves, weight loss, it was terrible. took me a long time to realize it was this potent mag bisglycinate. i now take kirkman labs magnesium glycinate and i ensure that i take it midday before food so that it gets pushed down into my lower intestine before being absorbed.

magnesium glycinate or bisglycinate is better than other supplemental forms because they are more absorbable therefore more effective, and also since more soluble, you don't get the same problem with 'the runs' that you can get with higher doses of less soluble forms like oxide, citrate, etc

i currently take only 150 mg mag bisglycinate per day and it's not really enough. i should be taking about 4 of those pills. i can feel slight spasticity in my muscles so it's time to up my daily intake.

one great thing i discovered as an aside about magnesium is that my menstrual cramps which used to be excruciating, and for which as a teen i had been prescribed prescription pain medication, are gone. if i can feel pain when i have my period, it's an easy indicator saying that my magnesium status is poor.

i also like to keep high magnesium foods in my diet, such as 1c sides of wilted spinach or boiled swiss chard. more info: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nt&dbid=75

magnesium is low in ms patients.. one study:

Magnesium concentration in brains from multiple sclerosis patients
M. Yasui, Y. Yase, K. Ando, K. Adachi, M. Mukoyama, K. Ohsugi
Acta Neurologica Scandinavica
Volume 81, Issue 3, pages 197-200, March 1990
Magnesium (Mg) concentrations were studied in the brains of 4 patients with definite multiple sclerosis (MS) and 5 controls. The magnesium contents were determined by inductively coupled plasma emission spectrometry in autopsy samples taken from 26 sites of central nervous system tissues, and visceral organs such as liver, spleen, kidney, heart and lung. The average Mg content in the CNS tissues, as well as visceral organs except for spleen, of MS patients showed a significantly lower value than that seen in control cases. The most marked reduction of Mg content was observed in CNS white matter including demyelinated plaques of MS samples. Whether or not these significantly lower Mg contents found in CNS and visceral organs of MS patients may play an essential role in the demyelinating process remain unclear, requiring further studies on MS pathogenesis from the point of metal metabolism.


coincidentally, magnesium has been shown to help keep blood flowing at the right velocity.

J Neurosurg Anesthesiol. 1999 Apr;11(2):96-101.
The effect of magnesium sulfate on cerebral blood flow velocity, cardiovascular variables, and arterial carbon dioxide tension in awake sheep.
Ludbrook GL, James MF, Upton RN.
Although there are data demonstrating reversal of cerebral vasospasm with magnesium sulfate, there is little information on the effects of magnesium on the normal intact cerebral vasculature. This study investigated the actions of magnesium on cerebral blood flow (CBF) velocity, cardiovascular variables, and arterial gas tensions. Magnesium sulfate was infused into awake, adult sheep at rates of 3 and 6 mmol/min to a total of 15 and 30 mmol, respectively. Direct arterial pressure, cardiac output, and CBF velocity were measured using chronically implanted catheters and a sagittal sinus Doppler flow probe. Arterial blood was sampled for magnesium concentrations and blood gas analysis. Infusion of both 15 and 30 mmol of magnesium increased CBF velocity by 14% (P = .056) and 24% (P = .023), respectively. These increases were accompanied by increases in arterial carbon dioxide tension (PaCO2) of 12% (P = .033) and 17% (P = .048). Multiple linear regression analysis revealed that both PaCO2 (P = .00037) and magnesium (P = .0012) were important predictors of CBF velocity.


hope that helps!
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