of iron and MS

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Re: of iron and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:07 pm

no problem! hmm that is weird re the ng vs the pg. n is 1000p. i'm guessing lab typo?

re the bloodwork, probably nothing to worry about, serum magnesium, serum zinc are pretty easy. for vit d3 the measure that is good for assessing stores is serum 25(OH)cholecalciferol. i've seen that requisition get messed up a few times. we shall see what we see in a couple weeks! :D
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:09 pm

OK, JL. Patience is what required for now :smile:

What should I aim for in terms of b12 supplements? Right now am using this (over a month): http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0072D7 ... amin+spray

1200 mcg daily dose... does it sound pretty small?
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:16 pm

Also, would like to note, that I already was on vitD3 supplement (2000iu daily) for about a month too, however had a couple days brake before going for bloods. Could this mess up things? :roll:
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:45 am

1200 mcg sounds like plenty, assuming you have the right cofactors for absorption (aside from intrinsic factor, a zinc requirement has been noted in research i've read). i definitely don't need to take as much as i used to, to keep my levels up, now that i've dealt with a bunch of other things. you might need to double up in the short term, just to give your system a bit of a boost and get yourself up over 500!

re taking d3 alone and affecting tests, yep, likely. i personally try to wash out for a couple weeks before bloodwork, in hopes of getting a sense of stores vs levels while supplementing.

i also always go to the lab first thing in the morning, before even a morning tea or coffee, with the (possibly misguided) idea of making my results more consistent and comparable over time.

if you were taking d3 alone without balancing with any cofactors, we could expect d3 to be higher than you had been before, with lowered magnesium and potentially also lowered zinc status. we shall see!!
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Mon May 18, 2015 10:21 am

Hello there,

Jimmylegs, need your attention, please; I got some numbers:)

Ferritin dropped to 7.4
Zinc - 67
VitD3 - 59 (range: 50-200) Excuse my head, I don't know which test was made :? I will get the info.
Magnesium - is on the way...
Selenium - forgot to include in test...
Vit B12 - dropped to 290 (despite the fact, that I am using it daily for couple of months. Zero absorption?)
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Mon May 18, 2015 6:02 pm

ok without units i am taking quite a leap here but, i will suggest you would do well to pursue a ferritin level closer to the 80-100ug/L neighbourhood.

zinc at 67 ug/dl would be considered deficient at my local lab. better to push the zinc up closer to 120 µg/dl if you can

looking at that vit d3, it looks like it must be in nmol/L (which is weird if zinc is in µg/d). if so, aim for 100 to start, with extreme caution to ensure cofactors are balanced.

from iron convo posted elsewhere...
general-discussion-f1/topic13343.html#p130155
<18 probably iron deficient
18-40 possibly deficient
41-100 probably not deficient
101-300 not iron deficient
>300 possible iron overload

i can't quickly find the study which mentioned b12 and d3 absorption are improved when zinc status is good. i'll be interested to see how your serum cobalamin and d3 levels behave after zinc repletion.

looking forward to seeing the serum mag result when it comes in :)

SOOOOOO next steps. when both zinc and iron are low together, you need to be careful. supplements can be more risky when you're playing around in the basement there. i need to go back and review, to see if we've already talked about the iron and zinc content (or lack thereof) in your current diet, and whether you're open to making changes!
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby NHE » Mon May 18, 2015 10:21 pm

Health7 wrote:Vit B12 - dropped to 290 (despite the fact, that I am using it daily for couple of months. Zero absorption?)

I've found that some B12 supplements don't work very well. What form are you taking? Sublingual or oral? Methylcobalamin or cyanocobalamin? What brand?
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Tue May 19, 2015 1:39 am

Hi, NHE,

If you would look up on this page, I have post it previously, thanks.
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Tue May 19, 2015 1:57 am

Jimmylegs, I must to make changes! I am trying to eat homemade food. Due to my sensitive nature of digestion system, quite often have to reject meat or even fish. There are days when no food is acceptable. I used to drink fresh carrot, apple, courgette, sometimes-beetroot juice with added chlorophyll liquid. Have to return to it. Nowadays, I eat cooked beets, chickpeas, red kidney beans, buckwheat porridge. Something easy to make... Butter, unrefined sunflower oil. Seeds and nuts. Raisins, dates, dried figs. Avocado. I like eggs, but trying to avoid as hair test showed allergy (however am craving for egg yolk, daily lol). Stopped gluten for a while. No milk products except butter. I must eat more veg... Waiting for your suggestions.
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby NHE » Tue May 19, 2015 4:01 am

Health7 wrote:If you would look up on this page, I have post it previously, thanks.


Ok, I remember now looking that up before.

http://www.betteryou.com/boost-b12-oral-spray
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Tue May 19, 2015 5:28 am

hi again, ok that's a bit of a toughie, because you will need to increase nutrient-dense dietary sources of iron and zinc, meanwhile your digestive tract and immune system are sensitive. i suspect that improving your zinc status a LOT will make a difference to both your immune and GI health, given some time and care.

note however, that you can overdo zinc, with consequences for copper status! and, if you take zinc on an empty stomach, it can make you feel sick to your stomach. when i first tested my own zinc levels, i was at 50 :S really bad. the doc said take 100mg per day for a month, but i didn't do it - when i went back and reported that i couldn't take the zinc, she said well, take 50 in the morning and 50 at night then. since then i've taken no more than 50mg of zinc at one time, and i am careful to always take it with food. on an empty stomach, it's still trouble. i also learned over time to choose a supplement product that blended copper with the zinc (50mg cu with 2mg zinc).

so, some food links to start. one dish that is a good balance of zinc and iron is this oyster (for zinc mainly) and clam (richer in iron) chowder:
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=recipe&dbid=32
i wonder if even the broth of a dish like that could help you out in the immediate term. i currently have a can of smoked oysters and another of clams in the cupboard, waiting to make a version of that chowder, but am still working my way up to seafood.. slowly. various childhood experiences turned me off shellfish for the last few decades. game to keep trying though :S ! i could always handle shrimp, barely, except for right after that one marine biology class, and i ate scallops for the first time a few yrs ago, then ate the first two oysters of my life at a restaurant at the end of last month. oyster verdict: not a fan of raw off the shell, but still game to try the canned beasties :S

more food info:

zinc:
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/zinc.php (note that this 'top ten' list is not presented by order of zinc content per 100g... oysters and beef
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

iron:
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/artic ... f-iron.php
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

so just looking at the top of that last list, with spinach, go for organic whenever possible - you can do the juicing thing, or blend it into a soup (the recipe is posted elsewhere here) or boil no more than 1 min if baking it into a spinakopita or another dish. blend with a clean, high vit C source such as organic red pepper.
vit c: http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart

note in particular here, that may of these high potency zinc and iron foods are also great in other departments.

spinach has lots of magnesium and copper
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nalprofile

pumpkin seeds, in addition to zinc, also contain magnesium and copper (but are higher in phosphorus so don't go crazy on em!)
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... nalprofile

both oysters and grass fed beef are good sources of for zinc, and also contain b12.

i have to move on to other things now, but will just finish off by saying that there's research i've posted elsewhere on the forum detailing the benefits of zinc for digestive health. so if the idea of meat puts you off in the short term, it's possible you might be able to get there in time :)
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
User avatar
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Wed May 27, 2015 4:23 pm

Hi, came back to express my gratitude for your effort and time spent on my issues. Appreciate that.

Tried oysters for the FIRST time in my life last week, as, mildly speaking, never was fascinated by seafood. So, the taste was bearable while the texture - unidentified by the receptors. I might try other recipes and see which version suits myself most. By the way, how many of them I should be eating per portion and per week in order to be benefited in shorter term?
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby jimmylegs » Thu May 28, 2015 7:59 pm

they are SO WEIRD right? there's a recipe for the clam and oyster chowder which says one serving of it per week is enough. it depends what the rest of your diet is like. i find for me i'm better off getting 25-50mg of zinc per day. so let's say conservatively 25x7 or 175mg per week of elemental zinc?
odd sx? no dx? check w/ dietitian
DRI=MINIMUM eg bit.ly/1vgQclQ
99% don't meet these. meds/lifestyle can affect levels
status can be low in ms & other cond'ns
'but my results are normal'. typical panels don't test all
deficits occur in 'normal' range
User avatar
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Posts: 10296
Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:00 pm

Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:39 am

Hey,

Magnesium serum came 0.82 (range 0.6..- 1.7..). Forgot to ask about the units, anyways, obviously am on a lower side. Made magnesium oil myself the other day, so to remember to rub it in daily, would be desirable of myself :D

Found to (probably) be allergic to seashell foods. Trying switching to beef liver.
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Re: of iron and MS

Postby Health7 » Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:52 am

Hello there,

I am willing to increase my Mg levels via use of Mg oil and Epsom salt feet bath. Spasticity in my head, back of the neck - what bothers me greatly these weeks. But I do not know what to do with Ca. What is the best ratio between Mg and Ca when supplementing?

I do not use any dairy except butter. Consuming sunflower seeds, cashew nuts. Green leaves... could do better. No gluten whatsoever.
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