of iron and MS

Discuss herbal therapies, vitamins and minerals, bee stings, etc. here

Postby Terry » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:19 am

JL,
So far, I think you are correct. I have found no reason not to get my iron back up to normal. I am to call the doc next week, and will ask him about this again. I know this seems clear-cut to you, but this is one of only two things the doc told me NOT to take. He seems pretty open about everything else I ask about. So, I'll ask again. Thanks for your help. It is appreciated beyond measure.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:02 am

hi terry, i think it's a really good idea to double check. how is your doc with explaining? do you think he'll get into the details for you re: gender and deficiency vs overload oxidation conditions, etc? i would be very interested to hear what he has to say. what else did he tell you not to take, if i may ask?
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Postby Terry » Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:53 pm

I am not to use steroids of any kind. Not oral or topical.
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Postby Terry » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:30 pm

and... I think he'll explain if I push him AGAIN. :wink:
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:04 pm

lol! push away!
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Postby cheerleader » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:41 pm

Terry...
I'm bringing this thread back to life because I miss Jimmy's rants, and I think you hit on something really important.
WOMEN and IRON: (I'm remembering the Geritol ads of my childhood...)

1. Women have more iron dysregulation than men...more variations in levels of iron storage, due to menstruation. During pregnancy, the iron levels become more stable. Could this be a reason for female prevalence in MS, and the calm MS women have during pregnancies?

2. Scientists have found in Alzheimer's Disease increased levels of iron oxide in the brain. Especially in the brains of women....
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 092826.htm

3. Iron dysregulation is implicated in MS. MSers were tested, and their serum levels of iron were fine, BUT they had high levels of the mediator of iron uptake, called "transferrin receptor". Because of this they had more "iron turnover" going on in their brains, more endothelial dysfunction and more oxidative damage.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20474422

So, what I'm thinking is...these new MRIs showing iron in the gray matter of the brain of MSers, this research on iron dysregulation in MS, and the fact that women need to store more iron due to blood loss in menstruation...you got something there, Terry. Jimmy....you there???
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:06 pm

I am actually laughing out loud, and thinking it is a very good thing that I am not a perfectionist. Because..... I'm about to ask................................
What have I got?
Kindergarten-ese, please.
And I miss JL, too. Where oh where are you JL?
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Postby Terry » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:46 pm

Cheer,
This bothers me.

Though the results are based on a small number of samples, they give an indication that iron accumulation associated with Alzheimer's appears to involve the formation of strongly magnetic iron compounds


The stronger it gets, the more iron it pulls, maybe?

And how does a magnetic head survive in the electric world we live in?

Okay, crazy. Have I entered the twilight zone? I really should never think.
:oops:
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Postby TwistedHelix » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:00 am

This thread is ringing some distant bells with me, (although that could just be the last of my marbles rattling round): because I seem to remember a discussion about carbon monoxide as an MS therapy.
The theory was that because carbon monoxide binds iron to heme molecules in the nervous system, it suppresses the production of free radicals.
There was also research which found that people with PPMS excrete large amounts of iron in their urine, while those with RRMS produce high amounts of aluminium. It certainly looks as if the way we metabolise metals is definitely awry.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Nov 07, 2008 8:56 am

TwistedHelix wrote:This thread is ringing some distant bells with me, (although that could just be the last of my marbles rattling round): because I seem to remember a discussion about carbon monoxide as an MS therapy.
The theory was that because carbon monoxide binds iron to heme molecules in the nervous system, it suppresses the production of free radicals.
There was also research which found that people with PPMS excrete large amounts of iron in their urine, while those with RRMS produce high amounts of aluminium. It certainly looks as if the way we metabolise metals is definitely awry.


Your marbles are still functioning, Dom :wink:
Here's the study...it was mice and EAE - they found that carbon monoxide and heme-oxyginase 1 dampened inflammation and reversed paralysis.
http://www.jci.org/articles/view/28844
I keep going back to the discovery in'98 that nitric oxide is the signaling molecule for the endothelium. That stuff is seriously unstable. But it controls our entire vascular system. Just imagine the resultant changes in our body chemistry with increased levels of air pollutants, chemicals, metals, etc in our environment. Our planet's been one big science experiment - and we're the canaries in the coal mines.

Terry...the magnetism thing is very twilight zone, but just think how much our electirical fields have been altered in the last century. Your doc was/is right in advising you to not supplement with iron. Your levels were fine. After we gals get to a certain age, we just store iron in our bodies, since we don't lose as much thru menstruation or childbirth.
But I still say to keep taking lots of antioxidants- carbon monoxide binds up free radicals, but I wouldn't breath in car exhaust! Better to take vitamins and eat lots of colored foods. We love EGCG and quercetin in our house.
AC
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Postby Terry » Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:51 pm

carbon monoxide binds up free radicals, but I wouldn't breath in car exhaust!


A very good reason for me to keep smokin' those cigarettes!
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:02 pm

i'm here guys, just crazy busy and zonked... somebody remind me to read this properly in a few days :S hehe
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Postby DIM » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:07 am

Today took wife's blood test results that include iron and TIBC.
Although all of her tests are more than normal say hormones (cortisol, DHEA etc), D-25OH, uric acid, zinc, B12, cholesterol etc (even liver enzymes that were high due to silymarin supplementation for 5 months) I found that she has high iron values @150μg% (lab values 45-150) and TIBC @ 392μg% (lab values 250-410).
How is this translated for her situation?
If this matters she has PT @ 13.3", APTT @ 33" and INR @ 1.03, quite normal values similar with a healthy individual, am I right Cheer? :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 02, 2008 6:24 am

these are just from a random google:

http://www.netwellness.org/question.cfm/49301.htm
Question:
My blood work results says my Iron, Serum is 164 ug/dl with reference range of 35-155 ug/dl. I am a 49 yr, old white female, 5`7" AT 130 lbs avg. weight. I am very active, and have no symptoms. Is this something I should worry about or have further testing done?

Answer:
The serum level of 164 ug/dl does appear slightly high. I would usually recommend in this situation to repeat a serum iron with a total iron binding capacity and maturation index. Along with these tests, I would also obtain a ferritin level. With all of these tests in combination, one can get a better idea of whether or not an iron overload state is indeed present.

If such is the case, further work-up with an expert in hemochromatosis would be appropriate to consider genetic testing or other possible causes for iron overload.

http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics ... romatosis/
Hemochromatosis is a common blood disorder that is easy to treat, but low on the list of suspected diseases when patients have vague symptoms. Characterized by iron overload in the blood, it could be the culprit for such otherwise unexplained symptoms as fatigue, joint pain, and infertility issues. Over time, the toxic effects of the excess iron can lead to damaging diseases like diabetes, congestive heart failure, and endocrine system problems.

http://womenshealth.about.com/od/common ... erload.htm
People of European descent are most likely to have the gene mutation that causes iron overload which can lead to hemochromatosis... other non-genetic causes may occur such as complications from other blood disorders, chronic transfusion therapy, chronic hepatitis, and excessive iron intake.

and once the ladies stop losing iron regularly...
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1399716
The mean serum ferritin concentration in postmenopausal women was more than twice that in premenopausal women... Our results suggest that iron overload seems unlikely among middle aged women through their diet and nutritional supplement.
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Postby gainsbourg » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:19 pm

cheerleader wrote:

Iron dysregulation is implicated in MS. MSers were tested, and their serum levels of iron were fine, BUT they had high levels of the mediator of iron uptake, called "transferrin receptor". Because of this they had more "iron turnover" going on in their brains, more endothelial dysfunction and more oxidative damage.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20474422


The link you gave (above) leads to an Egyptian study (June 2008) about neuronal brain metabolism of iron that showed the levels of the iron handling protein "transferrin receptor" (TrfR) are very much higher in MSrs.

their conclusion:
Iron overload and upregulation of iron-handling proteins, such as TfR, in the MS brain can contribute to pathogenesis of Multiple Sclerosis and iron imbalance is associated with a pro-oxidative stress and a proinflammatory environment, this suggest that iron could be a target for MS therapy to improve neuronal iron metabolism.


Maybe I am getting excited over nothing but isn't this a major finding? Surely it's more evidence that MS is a primarily a disease of oxidative stress rather than an autoimmune disease.

It reminds me of the breakthrough a few years ago when the cause of the hereditary neurological disease Friedreich's Ataxia was suddenly discovered. It was found to be caused by faulty iron metabolism leading to increased oxidative stress (in this case due to a genetic flaw..insufficent amounts of the protien fraxatin, which is involved in iron metabolism).

Though Friedreich's has a genetic origin and follows a different course to MS, it has many common symptoms. Like MS, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, it is principally a disease of damage to nerve tissue.

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