Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate cancer

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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby mrbarlow » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:07 pm

I suspect the extra risk of vit E is outweighed if one has plenty of lycopene, Vit D, and keeps the pipework regularly flushed :wink: of which statistically lower the risk of prostate cancer.

Just remember to keep taking the zinc supplements :lol:
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby Abe » Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:42 am

jimmylegs wrote:the vitamin e they used in that study is a synthetic alpha tocopherol derived from petroleum.

i would say you need to switch forms, not stop taking vit e and selenium altogether.

i don't like the look of your products, and here's why:

the selenium is good, but the vit E in the blend is synthetic dl-alpha tocopherol, not natural ratio e8 complex

in the 1000IU vit e, it's a slightly better form but still all d-alpha tocopherol.

you need to eat good food sources of vitamin e, and get a natural source E8 complex supplement.

personally, at this time, i stick to max 400IU vit e per day, on top of diet.

when i was really sick in 2006 i took 3200IU per day for three days (just regular old alpha tocopherol because i did not yet know about e8 complex) and my lost position sense came back. but that is a short term megadose application, not something you would consider doing for years on end.

as for selenium, to avoid cheap blends of vitamin e, you can just take plain old 200mcg selenium in future. (A-C-E-S is a great combo in principle, it just has to be done right in practise or there's no point)

hope that helps!


Hi Jimmy,

You give loads of useful advice around here (thank you!) - However I fear you should be cautious with giving advice pro high quality vitamin E.
In all likelihood, any form of supplementation with vitamin E is dangerous in the long run, regardless of the quality.

I know you advocate whole foods over vitamins so I'll join your chorus of eat nuts!

Best wishes, Abe
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:34 am

hi abe, from what i've seen in research to date, up to 400 IU per day, even of a 'crappy' form of vit e, is understood to be safe at this time.

personally i have enjoyed enormous benefits from megadosing what i now know to be a poor form of vit e. (plain old alpha tocopherol) but i only did it for as long as was needed to correct my sensory ataxia. i was also megadosing b complex at the time too, so it took me a while to give the vit e the credit it was most likely due (no lab work in those early days to back up that hypothesis)

there are different 'good' e8 complexes out there - some would be extracts from vegetable oils, of all the different natural ratio components (a la 'new roots'). at the safe 400 IU/d intake i assert that this product would be a better choice than dl-alpha tocopherol.

the select study documents why straight vit e is potentially harmful. the pure synthetic alpha tocopherol depressed the serum values of gamma tocopherol in the patients studied. gamma tocopherol has important anti-cancer properties that appear to have been affected as a result.

you can check out the composition of the new roots e8 complex on their web site.

for comparison at nutritiondata.com you can read up on for example sunflower oil, which in 1 tsp contains 1.8mg alpha tocopherol. unfortunately so far there's no info on the amounts of the rest of the complex, so difficult to compare.

sunflower seeds are a great source and as i've posted extensively in the past, 1/4 c of raw seeds contains over half the daily requirement. i eat em on salads all the time, yum!

wheat germ oil is another product to investigate for a whole food natural ratio vit e supplement.

all the same i continue to take my 400IU natural ratio e8 complex daily. to date, that product is new roots. they may come out with studies in future to suggest this is potentially problematic, but i haven't seen them yet!

info on wheat germ oil e product: http://www.doctorsresearch.com/prod_wheat.html
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby Abe » Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:18 am

Hi Jimmy,

I'm normally 100% in agreement with your views, but I think you've got wrong on this one!

I think it's likely that the vit E is fat soluble.... builds up in the cells.... f***s them up... causes cancer.

The long term risk is simply not worth it when there's loads of safer options for antioxidants. As you note there are better forms of vit e in the short term; but in the long term they're likely to be damaging your body if you take say 400 Iu per day over 10 years. IMO vitamin e is best garnered through whole foods.

I am however definitely not against antioxidants especially when fighting MS.

Email George Jelinek to get his valuable read on things.

Best wishes, Abe
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:22 am

have you seen the raw data in the select study? i think it clarifies the impacts of supplementing only alpha tocopherol.

i can't see the same thing occurring with natural ratio vit e complex. that said, i have never found a study that examined the safety of natural source e8 complex supplements over 10 years, but that would be worth seeing. in the meantime, i'll keep up my 400IU/d regimen as a case study and let you know if i die :)

found something else (again i think these numbers are still narrowly focused on alpha tocopherol for some short-sighted reason):
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 002406.htm
The highest safe level of vitamin E supplements for adults is 1,500 IU/day for natural forms of vitamin E, and 1,000 IU/day for the man-made (synthetic) form.
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby Abe » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:05 am

jimmylegs wrote:have you seen the raw data in the select study? i think it clarifies the impacts of supplementing only alpha tocopherol.

i can't see the same thing occurring with natural ratio vit e complex. that said, i have never found a study that examined the safety of natural source e8 complex supplements over 10 years, but that would be worth seeing. in the meantime, i'll keep up my 400IU/d regimen as a case study and let you know if i die :)

found something else (again i think these numbers are still narrowly focused on alpha tocopherol for some short-sighted reason):
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 002406.htm
The highest safe level of vitamin E supplements for adults is 1,500 IU/day for natural forms of vitamin E, and 1,000 IU/day for the man-made (synthetic) form.


No, but I am aware that natural vitamin E is far superior to it's man made counterpart.

However it would seem that the cancer in these studies is caused by the excessive build up of vitamins such as A and E in fatty tissue. The build up of vitamin A has the same outcome as the build up of vitamin E, it results in an increased propensity to cancer. Therefore this result is likely to be the same regardless of the quality of the vitamin E. Good vitamin E builds up just like vitamin A and therefore is likely to predispose he person taking the supplement, over a long enough time frame, to cancer.
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:59 am

okay have a look if you can - if you did you would see that over time when supplementing with isolated synthetic alpha tocopherol, the subjects' alpha tocopherol level rose as anticipated.

at the same time, the researchers measured the subjects' gamma tocopherol levels. over the course of the synthethic alpha regimen, gamma tocopherol levels went down. presumably that was because the supplement was not delivered in a natural ratio or proportion, compared to whole food. gamma tocopherol is not so much an antioxidant like alpha tocopherol, as it is anti-tumour. gotta run that's all for now
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Postby icecube2 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:32 am

Scorpion,

this is just my opinion right ok

I had a discovered way back last year that I had a condition called Candida which I have now dealt with and got rid of, on researching the subject in great depth I came across that it is linked to some cancers Prostate being one of them.

I believe I had Candida for years brought on by stress ok.

My Dad died of prostate cancer back in 2008, knowing what I do now I think he too may have had Candida, he was a worrier like me, and had an itch on his arms for years and could never find a reason, Candida can causes allergies.

Isnt hindsight a wonderful thing, shame it came too late for my Dad and now I'll never know, the ironic thing was his main worry was me and my diagnosis. And one I now believe they've got wrong, mind blowing eh!
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby Abe » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:42 am

Vitamin E supplementation 'bad for bones'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17237569
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jackD » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:32 am

The right form of Vit E -Tocotrienols a potential anticancer agent!!

http://www.lef.org/LEFCMS/aspx/PrintVer ... sID=112391

This brand has ALL 4 kinds of TOCOTRIENOLS. You need all 4. Go light on the tocopherols.

jackD

Tocotrienol as a potential anticancer agent.

Ling MT, Luk SU, Al-Ejeh F, Khanna KK.

SourceAustralian Prostate Cancer Research Centre-Queensland, Institute of Health and Biomedical Innovation, Queensland University of Technology, Brisbane, Queensland, Qld 4102, Australia.

Abstract
Vitamin E is composed of two structurally similar compounds: tocopherols (TPs) and tocotrienols (T3).

Despite being overshadowed by TP over the past few decades, T3 is now considered to be a promising anticancer agent due to its potent effects against a wide range of cancers.

A growing body of evidence suggests that in addition to its antioxidative and pro-apoptotic functions, T3 possesses a number of anticancer properties that make it superior to TP. These include the inhibition of epithelial-to-mesenchymal transitions, the suppression of vascular endothelial growth factor tumor angiogenic pathway and the induction of antitumor immunity.

More recently, T3, but not TP, has been shown to have chemosensitization and anti-cancer stem cell effects, further demonstrating the potential of T3 as an effective anticancer therapeutic agent.

With most of the previous clinical studies on TP producing disappointing results, research has now focused on testing T3 as the next generation vitamin E for chemoprevention and cancer treatment.

This review will summarize recent developments in the understanding of the anticancer effects of T3. We will also discuss current progress in clinical trials involving T3 as an adjuvant to conventional cancer therapy.

PMID:22095072[PubMed - in process]

J Nutr Biochem. 2009 Feb;20(2):79-86. Epub 2008 Dec 13.

Antiangiogenic and anticancer potential of unsaturated vitamin E (tocotrienol).

Miyazawa T, Shibata A, Sookwong P, Kawakami Y, Eitsuka T, Asai A, Oikawa S, Nakagawa K.

SourceFood and Biodynamic Chemistry Laboratory, Graduate School of Agricultural Science, Tohoku University, Sendai 981-8555, Japan. miyazawa@biochem.tohoku.ac.jp

Abstract
and endothelial cells, have been implicated in such anticancer action of T3, while the in vivo potency and exact intracellular mechanisms for the anticancer properties of T3 remain not fully unSeveral lines of evidence support the beneficial effect of tocotrienol (T3; an unsaturated vitamin E) on inhibition of tumor development. Many factors, including decrease in oxidative stress and modulation of cell signaling pathways in tumor derstood.

We have hypothesized that the inhibitory effect of T3 on cancer may be attributable to the antiangiogenic activity of T3, and we found that T3 acts as a potent regulator of growth-factor-dependent signaling in endothelial cells and as an antiangiogenic agent minimizing tumor growth. In this work, we review the history and biological action (i.e., anticancer) of vitamin E and describe current research on the antiangiogenic effects of T3 and its mechanisms.

PMID:19071006[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

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Nutr Cancer. 2012 Jan;64(1):136-52. Epub 2011 Dec 15.
Induction of DNA damage and caspase-independent programmed cell death by vitamin e.
Constantinou C, Neophytou CM, Vraka P, Hyatt JA, Papas KA, Constantinou AI.
Sourcea Yasoo Health, Ltd. , Nicosia , Cyprus.

Abstract
Vitamin E comprises 8 functionally unique isoforms and may be a suitable candidate for the adjuvant treatment of prostate cancer. In this study, we examined the ability of 2 vitamin E isoforms [α-tocotrienol (γ-TT) and δ-tocotrienol (δ-TT)] and 4 synthetic derivatives [γ- and δ-tocotrienol succinate (γ-TS, δ-TS), α-tocopheryl polyethylene glycol succinate (TPGS), and α-tocopheryl polyethylene glycol ether (TPGS-e)] of vitamin E to induce cell death in AR- (DU145 and PC-3) and AR+ (LNCaP) prostate cancer cell lines. Our results show that δ-TT and TPGS-e are the most effective isoform and synthetic derivative, respectively, of all compounds examined. Overall, the results of our study suggest that isoforms and synthetic derivatives of vitamin E have the potency to trigger both caspase-dependent and -independent DNA damage and dominant caspase-independent programmed cell death. The capacity of vitamin E to trigger caspase-independent programmed cell death suggests that it may be useful in the chemotherapy of prostate cancer since it may prevent the tumor resistance commonly associated with the use of classical chemotherapeutic agents that trigger caspase-dependent programmed cell death.
PMID:22172208[PubMed - in process]


Nutr Cancer. 2010;62(6):789-94.

Mixed tocotrienols inhibit prostate carcinogenesis in TRAMP mice.

Barve A, Khor TO, Reuhl K, Reddy B, Newmark H, Kong AN.
SourceRutgers, The State University of New Jersey, 160 Frelinghuysen Road, Piscataway, NJ 08854, USA.

Abstract
The biological activities of tocotrienols are receiving increasing attention. Herein, we report the efficacy of a mixed-tocotrienol diet against prostate tumorigenesis in the transgenic adenocarcinoma mouse prostate (TRAMP) mouse model.

Male TRAMP mice, 8 wk old, were fed 0.1%, 0.3%, or 1% mixed tocotrienols in AIN-76A diet up to 24 wk old. Likewise, a positive control group consisting of male TRAMP mice and a negative control group consisting of wild-type nontransgenic mice were fed regular AIN-76A diet up to 24 wk old.

Our results show that mixed-tocotrienol-fed groups had a lower incidence of tumor formation along with a significant reduction in the average wet weight of genitourinary apparatus. Furthermore, mixed tocotrienols significantly reduced the levels of high-grade neoplastic lesions as compared to the positive controls.

This decrease in levels of high-grade neoplastic lesions was found to be associated with increased expression of proapoptotic proteins BAD (Bcl(2) antagonist of cell death) and cleaved caspase-3 and cell cycle regulatory proteins cyclin dependent kinase inhibitors p21 and p27.

In contrast, the expression of cyclins A and E were found to be decreased in mixed-tocotrienol groups. Taken together, our results show that by modulating cell cycle regulatory proteins and increasing expression of proapoptotic proteins, mixed tocotrienols suppress prostate tumorigenesis in the TRAMP mice.

PMID:20661828[PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Genes Nutr. 2012 Jan;7(1):43-52. Epub 2011 Apr 9.

Tocotrienols fight cancer by targeting multiple cell signaling pathways.

Kannappan R, Gupta SC, Kim JH, Aggarwal BB.
SourceCytokine Research Laboratory, Department of Experimental Therapeutics, The University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, TX, 77030, USA.

Abstract
Cancer cells are distinguished by several distinct characteristics, such as self-sufficiency in growth signal, resistance to growth inhibition, limitless replicative potential, evasion of apoptosis, sustained angiogenesis, and tissue invasion and metastasis. Tumor cells acquire these properties due to the dysregulation of multiple genes and associated cell signaling pathways, most of which are linked to inflammation. For that reason, rationally designed drugs that target a single gene product are unlikely to be of use in preventing or treating cancer. Moreover, targeted drugs can cause serious and even life-threatening side effects. Therefore, there is an urgent need for safe and effective promiscuous (multitargeted) drugs.

"Mother Nature" produces numerous such compounds that regulate multiple cell signaling pathways, are cost effective, exhibit low toxicity, and are readily available. One among these is tocotrienol, a member of the vitamin E family, which has exhibited anticancer properties.

This review summarizes data from in vitro and in vivo studies of the effects of tocotrienol on nuclear factor-κB, signal transducer and activator of transcription (STAT) 3, death receptors, apoptosis, nuclear factor (erythroid-derived 2)-like 2 (Nrf2), hypoxia-inducible factor (HIF) 1, growth factor receptor kinases, and angiogenic pathways.

PMID:21484157[PubMed - in process] PMCID:PMC3250528
Last edited by jackD on Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:16 pm

eat up yer raw sunflower seeds, kids! :D
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jackD » Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:24 pm

jimmylegs wrote:eat up yer raw sunflower seeds, kids! :D


I tkink it might be better to chew on a palm tree to get lots of TOCOTRIENOLS.

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/Table%201%20vite.doc

Tocopherol and tocotrienol contents (mg/Kg) in some seed oils.


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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby NHE » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:54 am

jimmylegs wrote:eat up yer raw sunflower seeds, kids! :D


How much is lost by eating roasted sunflower seeds? I like to make sunflower seed butter with roasted, unsalted seeds. I tried it once with raw seeds and it turned out like clay, roasted seeds are much better for butter.


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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:41 am

these are ridiculous serving sizes (1c) but nonetheless

dried
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut ... cts/3076/2 (DEFAULTS TO 1C W HULLS - USE DROPDOWN TO EDIT SERVING)
46.5 mg, 233% of daily RDA
mildly anti-inflammatory IF= +53

dry roasted w/o salt
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/nut ... cts/3166/2
33.4 mg, 167% of daily RDA
moderately inflammatory IF= -184

(E values are for alpha tocopherol only - no info for the rest of the complex)

you can play with all the different variables at the web site to get a better idea. short story is, you lose very roughly about 25%, and ramp up the pro-inflammation numbers significantly :S i used to eat homemade granola .. i still would, in limited amounts and only occasionally, but in general now i just have my sunflower seeds as a topping on salad. works out quite nicely! :D
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Re: Vitamin E and Selenium increase the risk of Prostate can

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:42 am

@jack - when i read about palm tocotrienols originally, all the research was funded by the palm growers' association.. wonder if that has changed, but don't have time to dig into it at present! already slackin' :)
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