Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

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Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby Ash3 » Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:17 pm

Why would my thighs ache when I am such a active person????
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jul 13, 2013 5:11 pm

try searching google on terms like:
magnesium pain
magnesium muscle ache
magnesium athletes depletion

you could also search scholar.google.com for relevant studies using these search terms:
allintitle: magnesium "multiple sclerosis"

sample study data:
http://www.sid.ir/en/VEWSSID/J_pdf/118620080207.pdf
Table 1 excerpt
Female MS Patients...1.83 ± 0.36
Female Healthy.......2.17 ± 0.23

compare:
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 003487.htm
'normal' serum mag: 1.7 to 2.2 mg/dL

so average ms patient = 'low normal', average healthy = 'high normal'.
notice from the study that the extreme low value for ms and extreme high value for healthy were both well outside the 'normal' range - 'healthies' on the high side.

sample healthy AVERAGE serum mag levels I have found in other studies: 2.3 - 2.7 mg/dL
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby CureOrBust » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:19 pm

definitely follow up on the mag. One other possibility I read somewhere regarding why we get muscle aches, is: Because our nerves do not fire correctly to contract and relax our muscles, the system does not work in its optimum capacity, and hence, other muscles are forced to work harder to make up for the failings of others (due to not not being fired in correct sequence, timing or strength) and hence the ones making up for the weakened muscles, are made to work much harder, and thus they hurt.
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:25 pm

c I would love to sit down with whoever wrote that tidbit you read, and pick their brain re magnesium. just to find out if whatever study controlled for magnesium status, or are they talking specifically about ms patients in which the known magnesium issues have already been addressed.. since mag is so directly related to ability to deliver a 'relax' message to a muscle. that would be a fun chat :)
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby Ash3 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 3:20 pm

Thanks for the input but I have noticed now that I have been on Tecfidera for two full months, this has just started. It almost feels like the muscles are more defined, tighter feeling and achy. I have more energy and take a multivitamin silver and 2000iu of vitamin d. Maybe it is too much or I just do not know. I could research til I am blue in the face but do not have time.Ash3
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:12 pm

doesn't look like a tecfidera side effect.. maybe it's not on the formal radar.
do you know your serum d3 level and serum mag level?
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby Ladymac » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:56 am

jimmylegs,

Before Tecfidera I had to get off STATIN meds for cholesterol because I was getting the leg cramps, etc. Have you heard if there is anything about any drug interractions with Tecfidera and STATIN meds?

I am not on any cholesterol meds right now because they bothered my kidneys (non statin). Do you have any suggestions on diet or anything for cholesterol (high)?
Blessings,

Ladymac
RRMS diagnosed 2006
Tecfidera Started April 2013
:)
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:12 am

hey :) i'm SO not a pharmacist, sorry :S I have no idea if they've run into and documented statin/tecfidera issues yet.

now as for just statin meds and possible effects on nutrients, that's a little more up my alley. when on statin drugs you need to watch magnesium (hence the leg cramps), vit E, copper and zinc. zinc depletion can cause magnesium depletion on its own so that would be a bit of a double whammy on your muscles. mag, E and zinc are ones to watch in ms, and so is the copper zinc balance.

certainly you can do all kinds of stuff for cholesterol with diet. I did it for the first time 20 years ago, and at this stage, I could even do it wisely, with a far clearer understanding of what you can take out of diet and what needs to stay in :)

would you be able send me a three or four day diet diary? food, fluids, meds, supplements, all of it. plus any test levels you might have on file. and any diagnoses, other than ms and high cholesterol.

we'll see what we can find and what might be some useful next steps :D
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby NHE » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:23 am

Ladymac wrote:jimmylegs,

Before Tecfidera I had to get off STATIN meds for cholesterol because I was getting the leg cramps, etc. Have you heard if there is anything about any drug interractions with Tecfidera and STATIN meds?

I am not on any cholesterol meds right now because they bothered my kidneys (non statin). Do you have any suggestions on diet or anything for cholesterol (high)?


Statins are a bulldozer. They inhibit an entire biosynthetic pathway that also produces CoQ10. As such, anyone taking statins really needs to supplement with CoQ10, preferably the ubiquinol form (also called CoQH).

Were you taking CoQ10 when you were on the statin?

Note that low CoQ10 is not the only problem with statins. They can also lower your cholesterol too much which can interfere with cognition and muscle function. Please see some of my posts on the statin forum.
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:35 am

a little more supporting info...

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/o ... deficiency
Humans can endogenously synthesize ubiquinones; therefore, coenzyme Q10 is not an essential nutrient. ... Symptoms of coenzyme Q10 deficiency have not been reported in the general population, so it is generally assumed that normal biosynthesis and a varied diet provides sufficient coenzyme Q10 for healthy individuals (6). It has been estimated that dietary consumption contributes about 25% of plasma coenzyme Q10, but there are currently no specific dietary intake recommendations for coenzyme Q10 from the Institute of Medicine or other agencies (7).

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... t&dbid=118
Food concentrations of coenzyme Q are not well documented. In general, however, coenzyme Q is available from three basic types of foods: (1) fish; (2) organ meats, including liver, kidney and heart; and (3) the germs of whole grains.
The most concentrated sources of coenzyme Q — like heart or kidney — contain about 2-3 milligrams of coenzyme Q per ounce of heart or kidney. The germs of grains, while containing less coenzyme Q per ounce, also contain vitamin E in amounts of 5-10 IU per ounce, and this vitamin E works together with coenzyme Q in the body.

lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/epic4health/CoQ10-FAQs-April2007.pdf
The endogenous synthesis of CoQ10 happens to be a very complex process requiring numerous vitamins such as vitamin B6, vitamin B12, [vitamin B9, vitamin B3, vitamin B5] and vitamin C, and also certain trace elements. ... Thus the production of CoQ10 is dependent on an adequate supply of numerous precursors and cofactors, and a deficiency of one or more of these essential components can adversely affect the production of adequate amounts of CoQ10.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubiquinol
The mevalonate pathway (also known as the HMG-CoA reductase pathway) is an important metabolic pathway responsible for producing a diverse array of cellular products, including cholesterol and CoQ10 forms ubiquinone and ubiquinol. Statin medication targets inhibition of the mevalonate pathway to decrease cholesterol biosynthesis, however a consequence of their utilization is a depletion of CoQ10. Statins do not block all cholesterol production in the body. Similarly CoQ10 levels are not lowered completely. Nevertheless even a slight drop in CoQ10 levels can have a host of effects, some of which are not evident for years or even decades.
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:30 am

just a correlation, but could be telling re our mystery mineral

High serum coenzyme Q10, positively correlated with age, selenium and cholesterol, in Inuit of Greenland. A pilot study
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0/abstract
Greenlanders (Eskimos) have low prevalence of ischaemic heart disease, partly explained by a lower extent of atherosclerosis and a low n-6/n-3 ratio of polyunsaturated fatty acids. As atherosclerosis is also a result of oxidative stress, the total antioxidative readiness could have a substantial impact. From a health survey we chose the subpopulation from the most remote area, where the traditional Greenlandic diet with high intake of sea mammals and fish predominates. The mean (SD) of S-CoQ10 in males was 1.495 (0.529) nmol/ml and 1.421 (0.629) nmol/ml in females, significantly higher (p<0.001) compared to a Danish population. In a linear multiple regression model the S-CoQ10 level is significantly positively associated with age and S-selenium in males, and S-total cholesterol in females. The high level of CoQ10 in Greenlanders probably reflects diet, since no bioaccumulation takes place, and it could probably be a substantial part of the antioxidative defense.

I don't run up against selenium in the research as often as I do magnesium and zinc, but se is certainly another nutrient known to be lower in ms patients than controls. interesting the gender differences found in that study. would be good to check out the raw data.
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:48 am

this will be worth a closer look once I have better access

Coenzyme Q – Biosynthesis and functions
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1X10003815
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Re: Why would my thighs ache due to being so active?

Postby lyndacarol » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:50 pm

Ladymac wrote:Before Tecfidera I had to get off STATIN meds for cholesterol because I was getting the leg cramps, etc. Have you heard if there is anything about any drug interractions with Tecfidera and STATIN meds?

I am not on any cholesterol meds right now because they bothered my kidneys (non statin). Do you have any suggestions on diet or anything for cholesterol (high)?

Statins alone can have side effects affecting the muscles and kidneys; look into rhabdomyolysis.
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