Adventures with magnesium

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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jan 12, 2014 7:45 am

thanks NHE :) and, wikipedia unpacks it all far further than the short quote above, for sure!
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:26 pm

Also this was at a different lab than the 1.8 mg/dL from before.

Oops The units for the 1.8 were actually mEq/L.
:sad: According to the tests, it has not changed much. :sad:


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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jan 12, 2014 2:07 pm

true. no difference.

mEq/L * 0.5 = mmol/L
so 1.8 * 0.5 = 0.90 mmol/L
and 2.2 * 0.411 = 0.9042 mmol/L

so. now we know that REGARDLESS of no washout, your mag levels are borderline at best.

aim for 2.7 mg/dL (1.1 mmol/L). but not via magnesium megadosing. there's clearly a puzzle piece missing.
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info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:35 pm

jimmylegs, I have the distinct impression my Mg situation is a lot better, even though the serum Mg has not gone up (at least as of November 2013) and the following improvements have occurred in just the last two weeks or so:

1) bowel tolerance limits reached - no more amazement that I can take 2,000+ mg/day and still have hard stools. 200mg - 400mg is now the limit.

2) anxiety has dropped a lot.

3) I no longer get much relaxation from Mg (Mg oil and foot soaks). The relaxation has gradually decreased over the past 1.5 years. Early on, the relaxation was amazing and wonderful.

4) The muscle spasms in my legs (that interestingly would come on early in a Mg foot soak) have all but disappeared.

5) Leaning back in my chair, arching my back and stretching my arms out and back no longer produces spasming of my leg muscles.

6) Better Appetite

Yawning still often produces a tensing/shivering of the body and, When waking in the morning, the first movement I make in bed causes my whole body to tense up strongly (great way to pull a muscle) for a number of seconds. And of course there still is the spasticity when walking, although this does improve for a while after a lengthy Mg foot soak. Muscle symptoms are much worse in the morning compared to the rest the day.

Maybe my serum Mg has come up since November?
I will see about getting another test.
Last edited by THX1138 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:07 am

if your original deficiency was quite severe, it would make sense that rebuilding tissue stores could have tied up the majority of your mag inputs until recently.
will be interesting to see the next serum test results for sure. hope the K helps take things the rest of the way.
I can definitely relate to many of the symptoms (and the relief thereof) that you describe - really glad you are feeling better! :D
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Mon Jan 13, 2014 7:57 pm

I would just like to add that I believe that other improvements I get from magnesium seems to be due in large part to the fact that magnesium is a vasorelaxant , that is it relaxes blood vessels. Indeed, I have been shown (by MRV) to have cerebral venous stenosis. Both the niacin flush and transdermal Mg treatments have some similar beneficial effects on me, though the positive effects differ in their duration and magnitude. To see the improvements I get from the niacin flush, see my posts on the niacin flush.

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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 13, 2014 8:26 pm

the vasorelaxant aspects promote a whole raft of benefits in terms of renewed delivery of oxygen and nutrients to tissue. everything is so interconnected!
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:41 pm

The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for "normal" results.

Clin Chem Lab Med. 2010 Mar;48(3):323-7. doi: 10.1515/CCLM.2010.077.
The underestimated problem of using serum magnesium measurements to exclude magnesium deficiency in adults; a health warning is needed for "normal" results.
Ismail Y, Ismail AA, Ismail AA.
Author information

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
A major use of serum magnesium measurements in clinical practice is to identify patients with deficiency. However, numerous studies have shown that magnesium deficiency is common and may be present in over 10% of hospitalized patients, as well as in the general population. An important cause for under diagnosis of deficiency is that serum magnesium, the most commonly used test, can be normal despite negative body stores. This article focuses on the limitations of "normal" magnesium results and highlights the importance of lifestyle or "modus vivendi" as a pragmatic means of identifying those individuals potentially at risk for negative body magnesium stores.
METHODS:
Researched peer reviewed articles on magnesium published between 1990 and 2008 in MEDLINE and EMBASE, using database keywords "magnesium, deficiency, diagnosis, treatment and hypomagnesaemia". Bibliographies of retrieved articles have been searched and followed. We have also performed a manual search of each individual issue in which most of these reports have appeared.
RESULTS:
In 183 peer reviewed studies published from 1990 to 2008, magnesium deficiency was associated with increased prevalence and risk in 11 major conditions. Similarly, in 68 studies performed over the same period, magnesium deficiency was found to predict adverse events and a decreased risk of pathology was noted when supplementation or treatment was instituted.
CONCLUSIONS:
The perception that "normal" serum magnesium excludes deficiency is common among clinicians. This perception is probably enforced by the common laboratory practice of highlighting only abnormal results. A health warning is therefore warranted regarding potential misuse of "normal" serum magnesium because restoration of magnesium stores in deficient patients is simple, tolerable, inexpensive and can be clinically beneficial.



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20170394
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:54 pm

jimmylegs wrote:the vasorelaxant aspects promote a whole raft of benefits in terms of renewed delivery of oxygen and nutrients to tissue. everything is so interconnected!


jimmylegs, this sounds important. Would you please expound on this. ?



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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:19 pm

well, what is the purpose of blood?
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:28 pm

So. you're saying "everything."
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:21 pm

hmm, not sure exactly what you specifically want me to expand on there!
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby THX1138 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:48 am

Good point jimmylegs. I will try to be more specific.
the vasorelaxant aspects promote a whole raft of benefits in terms of renewed delivery of oxygen and nutrients to tissue.


1) Do you think achieving optimal Mg levels (extracellular and intracellular) could provide sufficient vasorelaxation to produce healthy hemodynamics so as to provide ongoing relief of symptoms relieved temporarily by the niacin flush (for some individuals) :?:
2) Examples of observed or anticipated benefits in the
whole raft of benefits
:?:


I have the hunch that the niacin flush improves hemodynamics that are unhealthy due to vasoconstriction caused by low Mg levels.
3) What do you think about my hunch :?:

Thanks much,
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:37 am

i think you and i share a similar hunch :) and i think that there are quite a few different things contributing to poor blood flow and associated consequences.

low magnesium is one likely contributor for sure. esp. since it's commonly low in ms patients.
low mag can affect vascular smooth muscles, and the viscosity of the blood itself. (in which case we need to consider hydration or lack thereof, vit E to vit K ratio, etc etc)

Supplementation with magnesium and vitamin E were more effective than magnesium alone to decrease plasma lipids and blood viscosity in diabetic rats
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 1709001225
"Six dietary groups, all fed with high-energy diets, were formed and studied for 8 weeks: control group (C); VE group (E); middle-dose magnesium group (MM); high-dose magnesium group (HM); VE plus middle-dose magnesium group (EMM); and VE plus high-dose magnesium group (EHM). ...
Differences between middle and high shear rates of blood viscosity were significant in all treated groups compared with the C group (all P ≤ .001)."

and of course we should consider any contribution that low zinc (also common in ms patients) may have to low mag status.
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: Adventures with magnesium

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:33 pm

thx, I just ran across this old goodie again

The multifaceted and widespread pathology of magnesium deficiency.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11425281
"The range of pathologies associated with Mg deficiency is staggering: ... thiamine deactivation (low gastric acid)"
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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