A little advise please

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A little advise please

Postby goonasi » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:02 am

Hi - First post on this forum. I am Simon from London, UK. I have RRMS and currently take 3mg LDN in the evening which I still remain skeptical as I have had a few relapses of late. Maybe lack of nutrients is to blame???

I am a little confused with supplements and vitamins; I was originally taking high strength EPA (approx 2000mg EPA) together with Baseline AM & Baseline PM which is a mixture of various nutrients and vitamins believed to be required for MS. I do believe that all dosages supplied are minimal but I just assumed anything is better than nothing. Funds have now run low because I have not been working due to a recent relapse and have now reverted to a cheaper version of EPA omega 3 oils.

I am now currently taking (all within the last week after advice from a friend with MS)

100mg Zinc with 2mg Copper every other evening
10 x Omega 3 fish oils (180mg EPA 120mg DHA)
200 mcg Selenium
4000 IU Vit D3

My confusion is, is it OK to take all of the above in one go with my breakfast or is this too much for my body to absorb in one go, and maybe better spread throughout the day ? And should I be complementing the above with Calcium & Magnesium?

Thank You
Simon :?
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Jan 25, 2010 6:05 pm

welcome simon :)

it's hard to say whether nutrients are to blame without getting some testing done. but, if you want to base your supplementation on assuming your levels of various nutrients are similar to other ms patients, then there are a few things to look at.

to your main question, i would tend to say it is better to spread intakes out through the day.

it is important to take calcium and magnesium when you are taking vitamin d3. you need to take some of the calcium and mag at the same time as the d3, and some at a separate time.

i wouldn't leave out b-complex.. or vit c.. or vitamin e either.. but don't buy a vit e supplement (cheap ones are no good) you can supplement vitamin e by boosting intakes of things like wheat germ, or sunflower seeds or sunflower oil..

i have included my signature links to a whole bunch of info on nutrition and ms. hope that helps,
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ZINC and IRON problem for MS folks

Postby jackD » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:02 pm

There are two METALS that are a problem for MS folks.

ZINC and IRON

Some ZINC is good and necessary for good health however HIGH levels of ZINC is highly suspected of causing MS. Several "hot clusters" of MS have been found around locations where high levels of zinc were being released.

I do not think it would be wise for a person with MS to take ZINC supplements beyond 25 mg (167 %DV) that is in most multivitamins.

I think this may have something to to with MMP formation. All 27 types of MMPs have a zinc at the "business end" and use it to cut our Myelin into little pieces by breaking the hydrogen bonds. I think that the body may adapt to the high levels of ZINC by making LOTS of "very agressive" MMPs.

MMPs levels are elevated JUST BEFORE and DURING an MS attack.

jackD
.
.
: J Neuroimmunol. 1997 Feb;72(2):155-61.

Matrix metalloproteinases, tumor necrosis factor and multiple sclerosis: an
overview.

Chandler S, Miller KM, Clements JM, Lury J, Corkill D, Anthony DC, Adams SE,
Gearing AJ.

British Biotech Pharmaceuticals Limited, Cowley, Oxford, UK.

The matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are a family of at least 14 zinc-dependent enzymes which are known to degrade the protein components of extracellular matrix. In addition, MMPs and related enzymes can also process a number of cell surface cytokines, receptors, and other soluble proteins. In particular we have shown that the release of the pro-inflammatory cytokine, tumor necrosis factor-alpha, from its membrane-bound precursor is an MMP-dependent process.

MMPs are expressed by the inflammatory cells which are associated with CNS lesions in animal models of multiple sclerosis (MS) and in tissue from patients with the disease. MMP expression will contribute to the tissue destruction and inflammation in MS. Drugs which inhibit MMP activity are effective in animal models of MS and may prove to be useful therapies in the clinic.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9042108 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
.
.

1: Arch Environ Health. 2001 Sep-Oct;56(5):389-95.

Comment in:
Arch Environ Health. 2002 Jul-Aug;57(4):383; author reply 383.

A multiple sclerosis cluster associated with a small, north-central Illinois
community.

Schiffer RB, McDermott MP, Copley C.

Department of Neuropsychiatry, Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center,
Lubbock 79430, USA. psyrbs@ttuhsc.edu

The authors investigated a reported incidence cluster of multiple sclerosis (MS)cases in a small, north-central Illinois community to determine validity and statistical significance. DePue, Illinois--a small, north-central Illinois community--has previously been the site of significant environmental heavy-metal exposure from a zinc smelter. Significant contamination of soil and water with zinc and other metals has been documented in this community during the time period of interest. In the mid-1990s, several cases of MS were reported to the
Illinois Department of Public Health within the geographic limits of this
community. Available medical records from purported MS cases reported to the Illinois Department of Public Health were reviewed, and living individuals were seen and examined. Statistical analyses were conducted with clinically definite MS cases; onset dates were determined by first symptom, and expected incidence rates were determined from published epidemiologic studies. Nine new cases of clinically definite MS occurred among residents of DePue, Illinois, during the period between 1971 and 1990. Seven of the 8 living subjects included in the final analyses were examined by one author (RS).

The computed incidence rate deriving from these cases within DePue Township, Illinois, represented a statistically significant excess of new MS cases over expected. During the period from 1971 through 1990, a significant excess of MS cases occurred within the population of DePue, Illinois.

Significant exposure of this population to mitogenic trace metals, including zinc, was also documented during this time period.

PMID: 11777019 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
.
Neurology. 1994 Feb;44(2):329-33.

A genetic marker and family history study of the upstate New York multiple sclerosis cluster.
Schiffer RB, Weitkamp LR, Ford C, Hall WJ.

Department of Neurology, University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry, NY 14642.

We report nine additional cases of new-onset multiple sclerosis (MS) among employees of an upstate New York manufacturing plant that uses zinc as a primary metal. These cases, identified during the decade 1980 to 1989, had clinical onset of the disease between 1979 and 1987. The new cases confirm the increased incidence of MS previously reported in the plant population for the 1970 to 1979 decade. The MS subjects in this occupationally based cluster do not seem different from other MS patients with regard to rates of familial MS or the frequencies of alleles for human leukocyte (HLA-DR) antigens or transferrin. The frequency distribution of alleles for transferrin (an iron- and zinc-binding protein) may differ in these and other MS subjects compared with controls.

PMID: 8309585 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Neurology. 1987 Oct;37(10):1672-7.

Multiple sclerosis and the workplace: report of an industry-based cluster.
Stein EC, Schiffer RB, Hall WJ, Young N.

Department of Preventive and Community Medicine, University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry, NY 14642.

Eleven cases of MS occurred within a 10-year period in a zinc-related manufacturing plant. The observed disease incidence was greater than expected from population data, using multiple approaches to statistical analysis (p less than or equal to 0.01). A case-control study, performed to examine several zinc parameters in blood, failed to indicate specific abnormalities among the MS patients, but all subjects (both MS and controls) working in the plant demonstrated higher serum zinc levels than all subjects (MS and controls) not working there.

PMID: 3658175 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Too litle is BAD, just enough is GREAT, too much IS VERY BAD

Postby jackD » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:16 pm

YES! It seems that zinc is low in the white matter of MS folks, so making sure
that you get a100% supply does make sense.

You should not exceed 30 mg daily. A 100 % dose would be 15 mg.

A chelated form of zinc called zinc monomethionine (zinc bound with the
amino acid methionine) is sold under the trademark OptiZinc has been found
to have antioxidant activity comparable to that of Vitamin C, Vitamin E, and
beta-carotene. It is readily absorbed by the body in this form.

Too much zinc can cause MS by increasing numbers/intenstity of activity of MMPs.

The main component that does the myelin damage is the MMP-9s using the Zinc as a 'knife".

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/Yongrev.pdf
.
(see fig 2 and narrative on page 505)
METALLOPROTEINASES IN BIOLOGY AND PATHOLOGY OF
THE NERVOUS SYSTEM

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Postby goonasi » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:52 am

WOW Thank You for the responses and help

I will reduce the zinc intake and after reading and speaking with my friend I will purchase via ZipVit (not sure everyone will be aware of them as it is a UK based company) a 1 tablet Calcium 400mg with Magnesium 200mg and take 1 in the morning and 2 before bed with my LDN.

I did take B50 complex a while back for about a week and found them vile with a weird radiant luminous orange colour wee wee ! I will dust them down and give them another go.

I found OptiZinc 120 Tablets by Source Naturals they contain 30mg Zinc & 300mcg Copper, would I be right to assume this would be OK to replace the Zinc & Copper I have been taking or would it be best to leave it alone and maybe go down the vitamin ACE route ?

Again with ZipVit they have a a combined tablet with selenium 200mcg, vit A 400mcg, vit C 60mg, vit E 10mg.
Unsure what would be best the optizinc or the zipvit or both ?

Again thank you

Simon
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Postby shye » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:47 pm

JackD
THANKS for your info re:ZINC am taking more than the 30, and will review your material...
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Postby jackD » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:34 pm

GREAT!

I do not like the "OXIDE" form of Zinc or Magnesium (i.e Zinc oxide - Magnesium oxide).


I feel that the chelated froms are better. i.e. bound to an amino acid.

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Postby jackD » Tue Jan 26, 2010 5:57 pm

Lowering MMP-9s is a GREAT idea.

MMP-9s do a LOT of damage i.e they cut a hole in the BBB Blood Brain Barrier then enter the brain and then cut the myelin into pieces.

Things that reduce MMP-9s (AKA gelatinase B)

Green tea EXTRACT is one of the best and cheapist. You can get the low caffeine version.

It has been known for some time that these "thingies" help folks with MS -->this is why - they all lower MMP-9s.

***NOTE*** ( gelatinase B = MMP-9) ***NOTE***

QUERCETIN..........................REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18926575?


VIT D3 .................................REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12454321?


RESVERATROL (Grape Skin Extract) ...REDUCES MMP-9s
(NOT GRAPE SEED EXTRACT)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14627504?


GREEN TEA EXTRACT(EGCGs)... REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10719174?


ALPHA LIPOIC ACID (R-lipoic/ R-Dihdro-LipoicAcid) ... REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12458042?


NAC N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine .......REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12679464?


STATIN DRUGS (i.e Zocor) .....REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12370451?


Omega-3s (ie Fish oil) ...........REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19171471?


Minocycline/Doxycycline.........REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10415728?


Curcumin.............................REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10510448?


Pycnogenol (Pine bark extract)..REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14990359?


Chondroitin sulfate (CS) and CS plus glucosamine sulfate (GS) ..REDUCES MMP-9s

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15792947?


Interferon Betas 1a/1b...........REDUCES MMP-9s

(of course Steroids ....REDUCES MMP-9s)



I have lots more information on this MMP - MS - INTERFERON-beta connection and will elaborate it if there is some interest in this subject here. For the real techie stuff check the link shown below

http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/Yongrev.pdf
(see fig 2 and narrative on page 505)
METALLOPROTEINASES IN
BIOLOGY AND PATHOLOGY OF
THE NERVOUS SYSTEM


http://home.ix.netcom.com/~jdalton/M...roteinases.pdf
Title:
Matrix metalloproteinases and their multiple roles in
neurodegenerative diseases


jackD

Lancet Neurol. 2003 Dec;2(12):747-56.

Functional roles and therapeutic targeting of gelatinase B and chemokines in
multiple sclerosis.

Opdenakker G, Nelissen I, Van Damme J.
GO, IN, and JVD are at the Rega Institute for Medical Research, University
of
Leuven, Belgium

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is a demyelinating disease of the CNS of unknown
cause. Pathogenetic mechanisms, such as chemotaxis, subsequent activation of autoreactive lymphocytes, and skewing of the extracellular proteinase balance, are targets for new therapies.

Matrix metalloproteinase gelatinase B (MMP-9) is upregulated in MS and was recently shown to degrade interferon beta, one of the drugs used to treatMS.

Consequently, the effect of endogenously produced interferon beta or
parenterally given interferon beta may be increased by gelatinase B
inhibitors. Blockage of chemotaxis or cell adhesion molecule engagement, and inhibition of hydoxymethyl-glutaryl-coenzyme-A reductase to lower expression of gelatinase B, may become effective treatments of MS, alone or in combination with interferon beta. This may allow interferon beta to be used at lower doses and prevent side-effects.

PMID: 14636780 [PubMed - in process]


1: Brain. 2003 Jun;126(Pt 6):1371-81.

Gelatinase B/matrix metalloproteinase-9 cleaves interferon-beta and is a
target for immunotherapy.

Nelissen I, Martens E, Van den Steen PE, Proost P, Ronsse I, Opdenakker G.
Rega Institute for Medical Research, Laboratory of Molecular Immunology,
University of Leuven, Leuven, Belgium.

Parenteral administration of interferon (IFN)-beta is one of the currently
approved therapies for multiple sclerosis. One characteristic of this
disease is the increased production of gelatinase B, also called matrix
metalloproteinase (MMP) 9. Gelatinase B is capable of destroying the
blood-brain barrier, and of cleaving myelin basic protein into
immunodominant and encephalitogenic fragments, thus playing a functional
role and being a therapeutic target in multiple sclerosis. Here we
demonstrate that gelatinase B proteolytically cleaves IFN-beta, kills its
activity, and hence counteracts this cytokine as an antiviral and
immunotherapeutic agent. This proteolysis is more pronounced with
IFN-beta-1b than with IFN-beta-1a. Furthermore, the tetracycline
minocycline, which has a known blocking effect in experimental autoimmune
encephalomyelitis, an in vivo model of acute inflammation in multiple
sclerosis, and other MMP inhibitors prevent the in vitro degradation of
IFN-beta by gelatinase B. These data provide a novel mechanism and rationale
for the inhibition of gelatinase B in diseases in which IFN-beta has a
beneficial effect. The combination of gelatinase B inhibitors with better
and lower pharmacological formulations of IFN-beta may reduce the
side-effects of treatment with IFN-beta, and is therefore proposed for
multiple sclerosis therapy and the immunotherapy of viral infections.

PMID: 12764058 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Neuroscientist 2002 Dec;8(6):586-95

Matrix metalloproteinases and neuroinflammation in multiple sclerosis.

Rosenberg GA.
Department of Neurology, University of New Mexico Health Sciences Center,
Albuquerque, New Mexico 87131, USA.

Matrix metalloproteinases (MMPs) are extracellular matrix remodeling neutral proteases that are important in normal development, angiogenesis, wound repair, and a wide range of pathological processes. Growing evidence supports a key role of the MMPs in many neuroinflammatory conditions, including meningitis, encephalitis, brain tumors, cerebral ischemia, Guillain-Barre, and multiple sclerosis (MS).

The MMPs attack the basal lamina macromolecules that line the blood vessels, opening the blood-brain barrier (BBB). They contribute to the remodeling of the blood vessels that causes hyalinosis and gliosis, and they attack myelin. During the acute inflammatory phase of MS, they are involved in the injury to the blood vessels and may be important in the disruption of the myelin sheath and axons. Normally under tight regulation, excessive proteolytic activity is detected in the blood and cerebrospinal fluid in patients with acute MS. Because they are induced in immunologic and nonimmunologic forms of demyelination, they act as a final common pathway to exert a "bystander" effect.

AGENTS THAT BLOCK THE ACTION OF THE MMPS HAVE BEEN SHOWN TO REDUCE THE DAMAGE TO THE BBB AND LEAD TO SYMPTOMATIC IMPROVEMENT IN SEVERAL ANIMAL MODELS OF NEUROINFLAMMATORY DISEASES, INCLUDING EXPERIMENTAL ALLERGIC ENCEPHALOMYELITIS. SUCH AGENTS MAY EVENTUALLY BE USEFUL IN THE CONTROL OF EXCESSIVE PROTEOLYSIS THAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE PATHOLOGY OF MS AND OTHER NEUROINFLAMMATORY CONDITIONS.

PMID: 12467380 [PubMed - in process]
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Postby goonasi » Sun Feb 07, 2010 3:53 am

Again thank you for your help. I have done some reading and with your advise I have removed my high dosage of zinc and opted for the OptiZinc. I have also purchased some high strength EGCG green tea extract and Curcumin to help assist to reduce the MMP-9's. Have not got them as of yet, just ordered then through i-Herb in the meantime I have dusted down the B-50 complex and now take two daily and three Calcium / Magnesium 400/200mg, already I have noticed a difference. The difference being my legs feel lighter, mobility gradually improving (not walking the furniture as much) all could be co-incidence I know but will continue. Below is what I will be taking as of next week.


With breakfast

Vit D3 (Tablet) 4 x 1000 iu
Calcium&Magnesium 1 x cal 400 / mag 200mg
Selenium 1 x 200mcg
EPA (softgel) 5 x epa 600mg dha 200mg


With lunch

Complex B-50 2 tablets
Curcumin (Source Naturals) 2 tablets


With evening meal

EGCG (green tea extract 1 capsule
OptiZinc 1x25mg cap after meal
Calcium&Magnesium 2 x cal 400 / mag 200mg


I sure I am missing a few more important supplements time scales are wrong but would be interested if what I will be doing is good or whether it does require further supplements and adjusting to help aid what I am taking.

Thanks
Simon
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Postby shye » Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:53 pm

goonasi-
best to take the B complex at two separate times, breakfast and lunch, rather than both at lunch
Likewise with fish oil-split between two meals--breakfast and dinner

would be good to add a vitamin E, one that includes the gamma also
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GODS's gift to NEURONS - TOCOTRIENOLS

Postby jackD » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:53 pm

GODS's gift to NEURONS is a natural form of VIT-E called Tocotrienols.

jackD

FOR EXAMPLE

Iget mine from LEF:
.
http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... gnans.html

1: Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Dec;1031:127-42.

Tocotrienol: the natural vitamin E to defend the nervous system?

Sen CK, Khanna S, Roy S.
Davis Heart & Lung Research Institute, 473 West 12th Avenue, The Ohio State University Medical Center, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA.

Vitamin E is essential for normal neurological function. It is the major lipid-soluble, chain-breaking antioxidant in the body, protecting the integrity of membranes by inhibiting lipid peroxidation. Mostly on the basis of symptoms of primary vitamin E deficiency, it has been demonstrated that vitamin E has a central role in maintaining neurological structure and function. Orally supplemented vitamin E reaches the cerebrospinal fluid and brain. Vitamin E is a generic term for all tocopherols and their derivatives having the biological activity of RRR-alpha-tocopherol, the naturally occurring stereoisomer compounds with vitamin E activity.

In nature, eight substances have been found to have vitamin E activity: alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-tocopherol; and alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-tocotrienol. Often, the term vitamin E is synonymously used with alpha-tocopherol. Tocotrienols, formerly known as zeta, , or eta-tocopherols, are similar to tocopherols except that they have an isoprenoid tail with three unsaturation points instead of a saturated phytyl tail. Although tocopherols are predominantly found in corn, soybean, and olive oils, tocotrienols are particularly rich in palm, rice bran, and barley oils.

Tocotrienols possess powerful antioxidant, anticancer, and cholesterol-lowering properties. Recently, we have observed that alpha-tocotrienol is multi-fold more potent than alpha-tocopherol in protecting HT4 and primary neuronal cells against toxicity induced by glutamate as well as by a number of other toxins.

At nanomolar concentration, tocotrienol, but not tocopherol, completely protected neurons by an antioxidant-independent mechanism. Our current work identifies two major targets of tocotrienol in the neuron: c-Src kinase and 12-lipoxygenase.

Dietary supplementation studies have established that tocotrienol, fed orally, does reach the brain. The current findings point towards tocotrienol as a potent neuroprotective form of natural vitamin E.

PMID: 15753140 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

1: Life Sci. 2006 Mar 27;78(18):2088-98. Epub 2006 Feb 3.

Tocotrienols: Vitamin E beyond tocopherols.

Sen CK, Khanna S, Roy S.
Department of Surgery, Davis Heart and Lung Research Institute, The Ohio State University Medical Center, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA. chandan.sen@osumc.edu

In nature, eight substances have been found to have vitamin E activity: alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-tocopherol; and alpha-, beta-, gamma- and delta-tocotrienol. Yet, of all papers on vitamin E listed in PubMed less than 1% relate to tocotrienols. The abundance of alpha-tocopherol in the human body and the comparable efficiency of all vitamin E molecules as antioxidants, led biologists to neglect the non-tocopherol vitamin E molecules as topics for basic and clinical research. Recent developments warrant a serious reconsideration of this conventional wisdom.

Tocotrienols possess powerful neuroprotective, anti-cancer and cholesterol lowering properties that are often not exhibited by tocopherols. Current developments in vitamin E research clearly indicate that members of the vitamin E family are not redundant with respect to their biological functions. alpha-Tocotrienol, gamma-tocopherol, and delta-tocotrienol have emerged as vitamin E molecules with functions in health and disease that are clearly distinct from that of alpha-tocopherol.

At nanomolar concentration, alpha-tocotrienol, not alpha-tocopherol, prevents neurodegeneration. On a concentration basis, this finding represents the most potent of all biological functions exhibited by any natural vitamin E molecule. An expanding body of evidence support that members of the vitamin E family are functionally unique. In recognition of this fact, title claims in manuscripts should be limited to the specific form of vitamin E studied. For example, evidence for toxicity of a specific form of tocopherol in excess may not be used to conclude that high-dosage "vitamin E" supplementation may increase all-cause mortality. Such conclusion incorrectly implies that tocotrienols are toxic as well under conditions where tocotrienols were not even considered. The current state of knowledge warrants strategic investment into the lesser known forms of vitamin E. This will enable prudent selection of the appropriate vitamin E molecule for studies addressing a specific need.

PMID: 16458936 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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Very good

Postby jackD » Mon Feb 08, 2010 12:55 am

goonasi

Your supplement choices are quite good. There are many more "thingies" that can help. I just posted info about Tocotrienols. It is a matter of cost, preference and risk. You should talk this over with a doctor and make sure to bring lots of printed info to show him/her.

jackD
Last edited by jackD on Mon Feb 08, 2010 7:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby goonasi » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:18 am

Thank you all again.
Have just purchased a cheaper version "Doctor's Best, Tocotrienols" which was half price hopefully this will help supplement my "thingies" that I am taking. I have adjusted the times accordingly of what I am taking and I will give this a good attempt over the next six months, maybe in time add a few more essentials to my list of thingies. I have tried the supplements half heartedly before, and have always been big on the EPA fish oils but did not venture any further other than the excessive zinc intake! whilst ignoring the B-50 complex.
Like I mentioned earlier my legs do feel lighter, mobility gradually improving (not walking the furniture as much) I still remain a little sceptical that all this could be co-incidence but I will continue, I must.
Will be seeing my Doctor in a few weeks, so I will take along with me exactly what I am taking with further info in hand that I have gathered. As usual it will probably drift straight over his nut, just a little worried at the wording you used "It is a matter of cost, preference and risk" risk being the worry.

Once again thank you for your help.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Feb 08, 2010 6:50 am

other than natural food sources of vitamin E, an E8 complex with four tocopherols and four tocotrienols (natural food source no synthetics) would likely be best. taking any part(s) of the complex in isolation would not be ideal. for example science has shown only taking alpha tocopherol drives down beta tocopherol which is a potent tumour growth inhibitor. i believe i've linked to the research elsewhere here at tims.
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Postby jackD » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:40 am

goonasi wrote:Thank you all again.
Have just purchased a cheaper version "Doctor's Best, Tocotrienols" which was half price hopefully this will help supplement my "thingies" that I am taking. I have adjusted the times accordingly of what I am taking and I will give this a good attempt over the next six months, maybe in time add a few more essentials to my list of thingies. I have tried the supplements half heartedly before, and have always been big on the EPA fish oils but did not venture any further other than the excessive zinc intake! whilst ignoring the B-50 complex.
Like I mentioned earlier my legs do feel lighter, mobility gradually improving (not walking the furniture as much) I still remain a little sceptical that all this could be co-incidence but I will continue, I must.
Will be seeing my Doctor in a few weeks, so I will take along with me exactly what I am taking with further info in hand that I have gathered. As usual it will probably drift straight over his nut, just a little worried at the wording you used "It is a matter of cost, preference and risk" risk being the worry.

Once again thank you for your help.



I hate to say this but you may not be getting a "full natural spectrum of tocotrienols" in that brand.

The "full natural spectrum" is..

Tocomin® Full-Spectrum Natural Tocotrienol Complex
75 mg

Typical Distribution:


Gamma tocotrienol
41.7-50 mg

Alpha tocotrienol
20.9-29.2 mg

Delta tocotrienol
10.4-14.6 mg

Beta tocotrienol
2.1 mg

Your brand may only have two types of tocotrienols Gamma and Delta.

I have two bottles of some similiar stuff that I am slowly taking ..just so I can finish them and order the GOOD stuff from LEF.

Any Brand that uses the "Tocomin® Full-Spectrum Natural Tocotrienol Complex" is VERY good.

jackD
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