My regimen

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

My regimen

Postby joeymia » Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:24 pm

30 year old Male

Waiting on vitamin and heavy metal labs to see what I am deficient in. So far this is what my regimen consists of.

Daily Copaxone Injection around 10pm

Morning:

81mg Bayer low dose Aspirin
1200mg NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
200mg Grape Seed Extract
1000mg Ester C
1000mg Fish Oil

Night:
400mg COQ10
1200 NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
600mg Alpha Lipoic Acid
2000mg Fish Oil


Any Suggestions?
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Re: My regimen

Postby NHE » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:04 am

Hi Joeymia,
With respect to grape seed extract, at least one group of researchers has found that it may be contra-indicated for MS. This paper indicates that grape seed extract may NOT be a good idea for people with MS as it increases the production of gamma interferon promoting a Th1 immune response.

N. Nair, et al., 2002. Grape seed extract activates Th1 cells in vitro. Clinical and Diagnostic Laboratory Immunology, 9(2):470-476.

    Abstract:
    Although flavonoids manifest a diverse range of biological activities, including antitumor and antiviral effects, the molecular mechanisms underlying these activities await elucidation. We hypothesize that the flavonoid constituents of a proprietary grape seed extract (GSE) that contains procyandins exert significant antiviral and antitumor effects, by inducing production of the Th1-derived cytokine gamma interferon (IFN-gamma) by peripheral blood mononuclear cells) from healthy donors. Our results show that GSE significantly induced the transcription of IFN-gamma mRNA as demonstrated by reverse transcription-PCR but had no effect on the Th2-derived cytokine interleukin-6. The enhancing effect of GSE on IFN-gamma expression was further supported by a concomitant increase in the number of cells with intracytoplasmic IFN-gamma as well as the synthesis and secretion of IFN-gamma. Our results demonstrate that the potentially beneficial immunostimulatory effects of GSE may be mediated through the induction of IFN-gamma.

Some other supplements you might want to take a look at are r-lipoic acid instead of alpha lipoic acid (Lipoic Acid: R vs. S), curcumin from turmeric, and EGCG from green tea. Note that there have been many references cited on the forum for the last two so they shouldn't be too hard to find with a quick search.


NHE
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Re: My regimen

Postby joeymia » Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:16 am

NHE wrote:Hi Joeymia,
With respect to grape seed extract, at least one group of researchers has found that it may be contra-indicated for MS. This paper indicates that grape seed extract may NOT be a good idea for people with MS as it increases the production of gamma interferon promoting a Th1 immune response.

N. Nair, et al., 2002. Grape seed extract activates Th1 cells in vitro. Clinical and Diagnostic Laboratory Immunology, 9(2):470-476.

    Abstract:
    Although flavonoids manifest a diverse range of biological activities, including antitumor and antiviral effects, the molecular mechanisms underlying these activities await elucidation. We hypothesize that the flavonoid constituents of a proprietary grape seed extract (GSE) that contains procyandins exert significant antiviral and antitumor effects, by inducing production of the Th1-derived cytokine gamma interferon (IFN-gamma) by peripheral blood mononuclear cells) from healthy donors. Our results show that GSE significantly induced the transcription of IFN-gamma mRNA as demonstrated by reverse transcription-PCR but had no effect on the Th2-derived cytokine interleukin-6. The enhancing effect of GSE on IFN-gamma expression was further supported by a concomitant increase in the number of cells with intracytoplasmic IFN-gamma as well as the synthesis and secretion of IFN-gamma. Our results demonstrate that the potentially beneficial immunostimulatory effects of GSE may be mediated through the induction of IFN-gamma.

Some other supplements you might want to take a look at are r-lipoic acid instead of alpha lipoic acid (Lipoic Acid: R vs. S), curcumin from turmeric, and EGCG from green tea. Note that there have been many references cited on the forum for the last two so they shouldn't be too hard to find with a quick search.


NHE


Thank for info. What about Acai or 100% Goji berry (tastes horrible) juice?
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Postby tzootsi » Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:47 am

I would also add a large dose of sublingual b12, and at least 2000 IU of vitamin D (or 20 minutes of summer sun per day).
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Postby joeymia » Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:46 am

going to wait for my vitamin tests to come in. No idea where my D levels are but I do living in Miami so I get plenty of sun. Not sure about b12. I do have a dropper for b12 i got one time because i heard it was good for hangovers.
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Postby LadyDoe » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:20 pm

Just a question. How do you manage to sleep at night with 400mg Coenzyme Q10? I use it to give me energy during the day and fight fatigue. It actually boosts oxygen concentration around the body - especially the brain - which results in an increase of energy.

Pretty interesting stuff. Good for you for adopting a healthy regime. I follow the Swank Diet - so i had a blood test and found that i was zinc deficient as I dont eat meat (my own choice) and was iron deficient although i take supplements.

Have you also looked at B-vitamins? a. theyre excellent for stress control b. B12 is veryyyyyyy important in MS as deficiency can result in MS like symptoms, oh and its important for our memory ! Think of Korsakoffs syndrome whereby alcoholics 'blank' out - its cause of B12 deficiency. Also, ive read that MSers need to keep their VitD on the high end of the scale. The normal range is 60-160 units. And in regards to Fish oil - i take ethical nutrience - its a potent liquid - requires only 1 tsp per day but it has something like 1.9-2.6g of omega 3, which is HUGE!

Good Luck with it all x
... if it's going to be, it's up to me ... :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:24 am

joey, smart to wait on your bloodwork before starting on a nutrient regimen. may i ask which levels you're waiting for in particular?
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Postby shye » Sat Jul 31, 2010 2:06 pm

careful LadyDoe
Think of Korsakoffs syndrome whereby alcoholics 'blank' out - its cause of B12 deficiency.

No, it is from a Vitamin B 1 deficiency--a vitamin esp imp for nerves (as is B 12--but there are imp differences in these 2 vitamins).
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Postby joeymia » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:05 am

Forgot to update this post!

I got my vitamin and heavy metal tests done. As expected my Vitamin D levels were low, it was 34 ng/mL. The expected range is 30-100. I started taking 6000 IU of Vitamin D3 daily and trying to get more sun. I will retest in 6 months and see where I am at.

What was odd was my IGF-1 levels were very low, it was a 9 ng/mL. The expected range is 13-73 and since I am only 30 its not suppose to be any where near that range. My doctor believes this could be one of the causes of me being so tired.

He suggested we try HGH and see how that will make me feel. I will be taking Gentropin Miniquick 0.8mg subcutaneous injection daily for 3 months. Waiting on insurance approval which is a nightmare for HGH since it is abused so often.

Any with MS experience low IGF-1? Is this normal? I did some google searches and found nothing.
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Postby joeymia » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:06 am

oh and btw my B vitamin levels were all on the high side. I suspect that is from my consuming so much redbull of the years lol
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Postby joeymia » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:24 pm

Oh I also modified my regimen. It now consists of

Morning:

1200mg NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
1000mg Ester C
1000mg Fish Oil
400mg COQ10
3000IU Vitamin D3
1 capsule of Tumeric extract

Night:

1200 NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
600mg Alpha Lipoic Acid
2000mg Fish Oil
3000IU Vitamin D3
1 capsule of Tumeric extract

Removed the grape seed extract. As LadyDoe said the Coq10 was keeping me up at night as well.
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:45 pm

hey there j, please watch the high dosing of d3 without balancing it with calcium, magnesium and zinc.

especially in light of these abstracts of possible interest:

Role of insulin-like growth factor-1 and growth hormone in growth inhibition induced by magnesium and zinc deficiencies (2007)
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/di ... aid=871212
We have evaluated the effect of Mg and Zn deficiency on growth, serum insulin-like growth factor-1 (s-IGF-1), growth hormone (s-GH) and insulin (s-insulin) in young rats... In conclusion, both Mg and Zn deficiency lead to growth inhibition that is accompanied by reduced circulating s-IGF-1, but unchanged s-GH response... The reduction in s-IGF-1 could not be attributed to reduced energy intake, but seems to be a specific effect of nutritional deficiency of Mg or Zn.

Dietary supplementation with zinc oxide increases IGF-I and IGF-I receptor gene expression in the small intestine of weanling piglets
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17901232
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Re: My Regimen

Postby NHE » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:32 pm

joeymia wrote:Oh I also modified my regimen. It now consists of

Morning:

1200mg NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
1000mg Ester C
1000mg Fish Oil
400mg COQ10
3000IU Vitamin D3
1 capsule of Tumeric extract

Night:

1200 NAC (N-Acetyl-L-Cysteine)
600mg Alpha Lipoic Acid
2000mg Fish Oil
3000IU Vitamin D3
1 capsule of Tumeric extract

Removed the grape seed extract. As LadyDoe said the Coq10 was keeping me up at night as well.


Here are a couple of my prior postings on lipoic acid which you may wish to take a look at.

R vs. S: Lipoic acid comes in two different isomers. One is called R and is the natural form and the other is called S and is a synthetic mirror image of the R form. The paper I've referenced states that there is a physiological cost to taking the S form. Note that unless the label indicates otherwise, most supplements labeled as alpha lipoic acid are a 50/50 mix of both the R and S forms.

Another post from the same thread links to an old article which discusses that lipoic acid likes to form polymers which reduces its biological activity. There are sodium and potassium salts of lipoic acid which are sold as a stabilized form. As an alternative, you could try a lesser expensive R supplement and keep it in the refrigerator.

I hope this is helpful.

NHE
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:41 am

great info NHE. i don't know anything about those kind of supplements.
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