MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby Squeakycat » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:45 am

1eye wrote:I know glucosamine is not exactly equal to sugar, but it was bad for my diabetic dog's blood sugar.


Diabetes Metab Res Rev. 2011 Jan;27(1):14-27. doi: 10.1002/dmrr.1150. Epub 2010 Dec 7.
A comprehensive review of oral glucosamine use and effects on glucose metabolism in normal and diabetic individuals.

Simon RR, Marks V, Leeds AR, Anderson JW.

Abstract
Glucosamine (GlcN) is a widely utilized dietary supplement that is used to promote joint health. Reports that oral GlcN supplementation at usual doses adversely affects glucose metabolism in subjects with impaired glucose tolerance have raised concerns that GlcN should be contraindicated in individuals with diabetes and those at risk for developing it. This review addresses its potential, when used at typical doses, to affect glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity in healthy individuals and those with diabetes or 'pre-diabetes'. Publicly available scientific information and data on GlcN were systematically compiled using the electronic search tool, Dialog , and reviewed with special emphasis on human studies. In long-term clinical trials, including those containing subjects with type 2 diabetes or 'pre-diabetes', GlcN produced a non-significant lowering of fasting blood glucose concentrations in all groups of subjects treated for periods of up to 3 years. Owing to limitations in study design, conclusions based on studies that report adverse affects of GlcN on insulin sensitivity and glucose tolerance in pre-diabetic subjects are suspect. However, no definitive long-term studies of GlcN use for individuals with pre-diabetes are available. Nevertheless, based on available evidence, we conclude that GlcN has no effect on fasting blood glucose levels, glucose metabolism, or insulin sensitivity at any oral dose level in healthy subjects, individuals with diabetes, or those with impaired glucose tolerance.

Full study available here
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Re: Biopharmaceutic Study Required on GlcNAc

Postby Squeakycat » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:55 am

MarkW wrote:I am guessing the GlcNAc tastes OK but do not know.

MarkW


Here's what the manufacture says about the taste"
Ultimate Glucosamine® is a powder consisting of 100% pure N-acetyl-D-glucosamine. This unique formulation contains no additives, salts, preservatives, coloring agents, gluten, lactose or yeast. It dissolves readily in both hot and cold liquids. When dissolved in water it forms a clear, colorless solution. It has a pleasant, sweet taste and can be added to any hot or cold beverage as a mild sweetener.


And here is their explanation why their N-acetyl-D-glucosamine is different from what they say is a "dizzying array of glucosamine products:
There is a dizzying array of glucosamine products on the market. Most are irrational combinations without any solid clinical or scientific basis to justify their use. In this section, we will talk only about the single-ingredient products containing N-acetyl-D-glucosamine and glucosamine sulfate.

1. Ultimate Glucosamine® contains only 100% pure N-acetyl-D-glucosamine. Almost all marketed glucosamines are isolated from the shells of crustaceans, in which glucosamine is present as polymers of N-acetyl-D-glucosamine. But some isolation processes use strong acids that result in the break-up of the polymer but also the removal of the N-acetyl group from N-acetyl-D-glucosamine, resulting in a low-molecular-weight glucosamine molecule. If sulfuric acid is used, a sulfate salt results, and if hydrochloric acid is used, a chloride salt results. A more gentle treatment and purification process yields the intact N-acetyl-D-glucosamine molecule.

Since glucosamine sulfate is hygroscopic, it is stabilized with either sodium chloride or potassium chloride.

2. Ultimate Glucosamine® contains more of the biologically active ingredient than other preparations. Most marketed glucosamine tablets and capsules contain the salt glucosamine sulfate and the stabilizer sodium or potassium chloride. It is important to know that only the glucosamine part is biologically important. Thus, products containing 500 milligrams of glucosamine sulfate may contain as little as 325 milligrams of the biologically important glucosamine component. In a recent study4 of glucosamine products on the Canadian market, the majority of preparations contained less than 60% of the stated amount of glucosamine.

Ultimate Glucosamine® is a powder consisting of 100% N-acetyl-D-glucosamine. This formulation contains no additives, salts or preservatives. Accordingly, what you see is what you get.

3. Ultimate Glucosamine® is the more direct route to the important macromolecules such as hyaluronic acid, keratan sulfate and chondroitin sulfate. Unlike the low-molecular glucosamine found in glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine hydrochloride, N-acetyl-D-glucosamine is an advanced molecule that requires fewer enzymatic steps before being incorporated into the macromolecules of cartilage.

4. Ultimate Glucosamine® does not interfere with glucose metabolism5. Low-molecular glucosamine, as in glucosamine sulfate or glucosamine hydrochloride, has been associated with glucose uptake in patients. This probably occurs because low-molecular-weight glucosamine inhibits glucokinase6. Because N-acetyl-D-glucosamine has its own kinase7, it is not dependent on glucokinase and does not cause a rise in glucose8 levels when infused into humans.

5. Last but not least, Ultimate Glucosamine® is convenient, easy to take - and it tastes good!

Ultimate Glucosamine® is available in a once-a-day powder dosage, making it one of the most convenient supplements to take. The N-acetyl-D-glucosamine molecule is more stable and, with a melting point of 205°C, N-acetyl-D-glucosamine can be taken with hot beverages and used in baking. N-acetyl-D-glucosamine is pleasant and sweet tasting, so that can be used as a sweetener when added to hot beverages such as tea or coffee. Low-molecular-weight glucosamine salts have a melting point of only 88°C, are bitter and generally have an unpleasant taste.

4 Russell AS, Aghazadeh-Habashi A, Jamali F. Active ingredient consistency of commercially available glucosamine sulfate products. J Rheumatol. 2002 Nov;29(11):2407-9.
5 Biggee BA, Blinn CM, Nuite M, Silbert JE, McAlindon TE. Effects of oral glucosamine sulphate on serum glucose and insulin during an oral glucose tolerance test of subjects with osteoarthritis. Ann Rheum Dis. 2007 Feb;66(2):260-2. Epub 2006 Jul 3.
6 Balkan B, Dunning BE. Glucosamine inhibits glucokinase in vitro and produces a glucose-specific impairment of in vivo insulin secretion in rats. Diabetes. 1994 Oct;43(10):1173-9.
7 Miwa I, Mita Y, Murata T, Okuda J, Sugiura M, Hamada Y, Chiba T. Utility of 3-O-methyl-N-acetyl-D-glucosamine, an N-acetylglucosamine kinase inhibitor, for accurate assay of glucokinase in pancreatic islets and liver. Enzyme Protein. 1994-1995;48(3):135-42.
8 Gaulden EC, Keating WC. The effect of intravenous N-Acetyl-D-Glucosamine on the blood and urine sugar concentrations of normal subjects. Metabolism. 1964 May;13:466-72.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby 1eye » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:15 am

I am sure it is an OK supplement for most non-poodle-diabetics. Before the vet nixed it, he had good results with his reason for taking it, which was bad joints. I am, however, tired of breakthroughs.

http://today.uci.edu/news/2011/09/nr_ms_110930.php

I got this from another article in Breaking Christian News somebody sent me. My response was as follows:

There have been many mouse studies, on "MS", a very few of which resulted in drugs, after 100s to 1000s of people were tested. Not counting chickens or holding breath. CCSVI needs intravenous ultrasound and even then they are not 100 percent sure why it fails sometimes, but it is a much better bet.

It bugs me that every mouse study is called a breakthrough. The cure ain't here yet, and the mice are nocturnal rodents that walk on 4 legs. Not humans. They won't be too much help. Sorry.

edit: fixed the url, in case anybody wanted to click it.
Last edited by 1eye on Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby HappyPoet » Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:12 pm

Squeakycat,

First, I wanted to buy the NAG that was used in the pediatric study and found the following info in the text of the actual study:

"Potential conflict of interest:
Ian French is Scientific Director of Glucogenics Pharmaceuticals, who supplied the N-acetyl glucosamine for the study. However all analysis and data presentation was performed by the other authors, for whom no conflict of interest exists."

So I tried to purchase NAG from Glucogenics Pharma, which is a privately held Canadian company heavily involved in research, but the company doesn't sell their products to consumers. Dead end.

So then, I researched makers of NAG and found out that Jarrow Formulas, a California-based company, continually passes all quality assurance testing for all its products tested by ConsumerLab.com; this is the brand I bought. I hadn't thought about the mouse study, but it's a good brand for people to try. Thanks for posting about it. :smile:

http://newhope360.com/jarrow-formulas-m ... com-review
Los Angeles, CA, December 15, 2009 – In a recent review of milk thistle supplements by ConsumerLab.com, Jarrow Formulas’ Milk Thistle was only product to be approved among the 10 milk thistle products that were selected for testing.

NAG by Jarrow Formulas hasn't yet been tested by ConsumerLab.com, but the milk thistle review above is an example of such testing.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby Squeakycat » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:58 pm

HappyPoet wrote:I hadn't thought about the mouse study, but it's a good brand for people to try. Thanks for posting about it. :smile:


You make a good point here that it may make more sense to use a product used in a human study unless you are a mouse in which case murine NAG is what you want. :roll:

Still, it may make sense as a starting point to use the product that was used, albeit for mice, in an MS-related study, than a product used by humans in a study of IBD.

Until there is an actual trial involving humans with MS, not mice with EAE, there really is no correct answer.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby blossom » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:35 pm

has anyone read anywhere if it would help ppms. we don't have relapses.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby Squeakycat » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:42 pm

blossom wrote:has anyone read anywhere if it would help ppms. we don't have relapses.


I have no expertise to answer this question, but will take a stab at it anyway.

The study notes that the fundamental mechanism by which treatment limited damage to EAE mice was that it appears to inhibit or promote immune system components which are active in inflammation and demyelination. If you have a form of MS in which there is no active inflammatory process, there is no reason to expect that GlcNAc would do anything beneficial. Further, the second study of pediatric IBD again notes that what seems to be happening is that GlcNAc is limiting the inflammatory process associated with that disease. Finally, so far, it hasn't been proven to be of any benefit to people with RRMS or any other form of MS. It has only been tested in mice with EAE, not MS, and in children with a different disease.

Nevertheless, I would give it a shot. It is cheap. It is oral. It has been widely used for decades with minimal side effects. Its mechanism of action may not be fully understood at this point so why not give it a shot?


Genetic and environmental factors that alter the branching of Asn (N)-linked glycans result in T cell hyperactivity, promote spontaneous inflammatory demyelination and neurodegeneration in mice and converge to regulate the risk of MS. The sugar N-acetylglucosamine (GlcNAc) enhances N-glycan branching and inhibits T cell activity and adoptive transfer Experimental Autoimmune Encephalomyelitis (EAE). Here we report that oral GlcNAc inhibits T-helper 1 (Th1) and T-helper 17 (Th17) responses and clinical severity of myelin oligodendrocyte glycoprotein (MOG)-induced EAE when administered after disease onset. Oral GlcNAc increased expression of branched N-glycans in T cells in vivo as shown by high pH anion exchange chromatography, MALDI-TOF mass spectroscopy and FACS analysis with the plant lectin L-PHA. Initiating oral GlcNAc treatment on the second day of clinical disease inhibited MOG-induced EAE as well as secretion of interferon-γ, tumor necrosis factor-α, interleukin-17 and interleukin-22.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby PointsNorth » Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:49 am

PointsNorth wrote:Thanks Squeaky,

I've been taking 2500mg/day for the last few days with no noticeable side effects. I will increase to 3000mg for the next week. No changes to report.

PN


I've been on 2500-3000mg/day over the last week. No changes to report. I'll continue for another 10 days and report back.

PN
Albany 2010. Brooklyn 2011
Hurry up and wait.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby cheerleader » Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:12 am

JL or NHE--can this thread please be moved to regimens thread?
It is not related to CCSVI.
We have a lot of info on glc Nac/ NAG on those threads from previous discussions over the years.....


Here's a post I wrote up in '07

I'd urge some caution about N-A-G...
We've discussed this supplement on the boards before. I had my husband on it (dx MS 3/07), until learning that this supplement is a precursor to hyaluronic acid production- he stopped taking it-

Hyaluronic acid prevents oligodendrocytes from repairing the damaged myelin I was of the impression people with MS may not want more hyaluronic acid. So, I think it's hard to determine if N-A-G might or might not be a good thing.

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopict-4460-nag.html

Please read our thread. Whatever you decide, I wish you health and answers in your search-



Here are other threads....
post166972.html?hilit=NAG#p166972

regimens-f22/topic4880.html?hilit=NAG

regimens-f22/topic1636.html?hilit=NAG
Husband dx RRMS 3/07
dx dual jugular vein stenosis (CCSVI) 4/09
http://ccsviinms.blogspot.com
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby 1eye » Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:05 am

I never thought I'd say:

Thank you for the note of conservatism. Maybe us hot-heads need it.
"Try - Just A Little Bit Harder" - Janis Joplin
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby HappyPoet » Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:02 am

JL and NHE,

Please don't move the thread.

This thread is related to CCSVI because many patients lost improvements and restenosed, some of whom became worse after their procedures when up to five veins clotted closed, and many of these patients will come here, to the CCSVI forum, looking for help they deserve.

Moving threads which might offer help to the 50% who already have restenosed and the 50% who will restenose after having CCSVI procedures will not be helpful for anyone and might even look suspicious (but not on the part of the moderators), imo.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby blossom » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:39 am

i agree happypoet. we all hoped for help but some of us came back worse off. so, until more is known and perfected we're stuck with bad results and looking for anything that could improve our situation.

we were some of the first to get treated and where do we go to discuss all this and look for help? if not right here. just what is ccsvi anyway? "a bunch of screwed up veins" for whatever reasons. --so whatever suggestions and news is welcome to me. if it helps some great!! after all ccsvi treatment only helped some. and sadly some of us are worse off because of it. so bring it on poet! and thank you. plus, when this was discussed on tims myself and others didn't even know tims existed let alone search out this stuff.
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:23 pm

cheer, i agree with moving the thread.

if TiMS members are going to look beyond CCSVI after an unsuccessful investment in surgery, that is what the rest of the site is for!

for the ones that want to try other things first, let's not bury the wide variety of resources in the CCSVI forum.

without requests for distinct areas, every last CCSVI post would still be buried in General Discussion (at least i think that's where it was originally!)

i'm thinking this topic belongs in the natural approach forum - what do you think cheer. and NHE, care to chime in?
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Re: MS Attacks Suppressed By Glucosamine-Like Supplement

Postby NHE » Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:46 am

jimmylegs wrote:i'm thinking this topic belongs in the natural approach forum - what do you think cheer. and NHE, care to chime in?


I am in agreement. After some consideration, the Natural Approach forum seems like the more appropriate choice for the location of this discussion thread.


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