Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:09 am

Additionally I think I triggered the innate immune system.

“The innate immune system is responsible for a rapid, non-specific response to various bacteria, virus, toxin, and tumor cells. Innate immune response happens first, like a knee-jerk reaction”

The next reaction was my adaptive immune system

“Adaptive immunity, like its name suggests, is more calculated and tailored to whatever pathogen has entered the body.
The innate immune response is composed of specialized white blood cells called antigen presenting cells (APC), which identify the pathogen (antigen), begin the fight, and inform the adaptive immune response to what it’s dealing with. The adaptive immune response then sends in the proper cavalry, known as T helper cells. There are two types of T helper cells: Th1 and Th2.
If the pathogen is a threat to cell-like viruses, intracellular bacteria, fungi, protozoans, or cancer cells, then the APC will signal the Th1 cells of the adaptive immune system to become active. If the threat is blood-borne, then the Th2 cells become active.
Th1 and Th2 are balanced in a healthy immune system. Sometimes they may be out of balance, but that imbalance is short term and a protective mechanism of the body.
In the case of autoimmune diseases, the balance is lost, and either the Th1 or Th2 becomes dominant, resulting in our body attacking itself. As the immune system is over-stimulated, it finds itself in a self-perpetuating imbalance. This imbalance is known as Th1 – Th2 polarization. This causes a vicious cycle, increasing both the imbalance and the intensity of the attack”.( http://bodyecology.com/articles/immune- ... blems.php#)
“Th1 cell-mediated response will produce inflammation. Persistent Th1-mediated inflammation has been linked with Crohn’s disease, IBS, type 1 diabetes, thyroid disorders, rheumatoid arthritis, psoriasis, and systemic lupus erythemaosus.”
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Advertisement

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:10 am

My trigger was Peptidoglycan

I recommend this article - (http://www.jimmunol.org/content/174/2/808.full.pdf )

“Peptidoglycan (PGN) is an important bacterial cell wall component implicated in chronic inflammation. As a mechanism of action, Peptidoglycan can activate the innate immune system through binding of extracellular and intracellular receptors.
Peptidoglycan from a vast array of different bacterial species can be derived from different anatomical sites, including all mucosa permanently exposed to the outside world. During bacterial infection, Peptidoglycan can be released, either from bacterial cells upon replication or upon uptake and processing by Antigen Presenting Cells. (APC)

In the absence of infections, the major bacterial load is located at mucosal sites. At these sites, i.e., the gut, DC may sample bacteria through the intestinal epithelium and subsequently migrate to secondary lymphoid organs. Even under normal circumstances, some PGN can be detected in the blood circulation, within the liver, and within lymphoid tissues, reflecting physiologic processes dealing with exposure to bacterial components” (http://www.jimmunol.org/content/174/2/808.full.pdf )
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:12 am

As I see it, taking N-acetyl-glucosamine was loading the peptidoglycan in the bacteria in my system. Over three weeks I added a sufficient amount to provoke a response in my innate immune system which was a knee jerk reaction that then prompted Th1 as an inflammatory response. This led to a burst of Lymph that is too great for my drainage system to manage. As a result the nodes swell and trigger spasms in various muscles. This is where I am now. The swelling is not so severe that it is easily visible to the eye but I am aware of it and can feel it.

What this means to me is there is a sense that EAE is a model but it is incorrectly applied. The immune system does flare up but it is due to an antigen response to something. It is not autoimmune, it is actually a response to an inappropriate trigger. If we do not remove the trigger or control the response then the inflammatory action will continue. The risk is it feeds on itself in an endless cycle.

As the lymphatic system has so many nodes and pathogens can be so varied it should not be surprising that MS symptoms are so varied and a definitive cause is so elusive.

Peptidiglycan needs to be controlled. Gramm positive Bacteria have them, Lyme has a double wall and peptidoglycan constitutes one layer. The variety and degree of infection will influence the severity of the immune response.

This response is only a part of MS. I believe the progression starts early in life with a renal system fault leading to insufficient megalin production and the production of ADMA. It is at this stage our problems with a leaky gut begin and pathogens with peptidoglycan walls can begin an ongoing invasion at almost any time.
EBV is separate from this but provides a second war for us to fight. Our prognosis will develop according to the timing of infections and the nature of the pathogens. Other factors arise as I described earlier. Their influence depends on the general state of health and the level of infection at the time.

I am improving but it isn’t fun. Yesterday was a rough one and today is good. I am sure I will completely recover. The antibiotic will break down the peptidoglycan and the rest of my protocol will be help the process.

I hope this ramble helps someone.

Regards
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:39 am

I ended up taking myself to hospital. They diagnosed atrial fibrillation and will hit me with the paddle pops the day after tomorrow. Before that I see a neuro so we will see if he is any good or not.

I actually don't feel bad, just grumpy.
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Anonymoose » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:21 am

:( Yikes. I hope your reset makes you feel better. Do they have any idea what is causing the a-fib? Maybe you'll get lucky and wind up liking the new neuro.

Keep us posted.
Anonymoose
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 am

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:11 pm

The cardiac people are very "by the book". Haven't seen the neuro yet. Have to wait and see.
My god hospital is boring. The bloke in the next bed snores so loud the windows rattle!
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:27 pm

The AF corrected itself. My heartbeat came back to 82. Maybe being confined to bed helped. Today I had MRI's of the spine but I haven't heard what they show. I'm in the same place I was in when I was first diagnosed so they will look at my 20 year old records for comparison.
Right now I'm hooked up to an IV of prednisolone. This will continue for three days. The neuro will be looking for a respite of the attack. I will be looking Th1 to be taken out of a proinflammatory loop. The same outcome I suppose.
When the hands come back and the hug dissipates I will be dangerous again.
Regards
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby NHE » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:12 am

Hi Scott,
I'm sorry to hear that you're in the hospital. While you're there, you might consider having them test your B12, RBC folate, methylmalonic acid and homocysteine levels. Last Spring I was found to be B12 and folate deficient and my homocysteine was at 16.1 µmol/L. The standard range is 4-12 µmol/L. Homocysteine is a cardiotoxic amino acid that builds up when B12 and/or folate is low. It increases the risk of a variety of cardio disease factors such as high blood pressure, atherosclerosis, stroke and heart attack. I had been struggling with high blood pressure for a couple of years. I also spent a 5-7 days on a monitor due to irregular heartbeats. Shortly before my B12 tests I had been experiencing fibrillations where I could feel my heart fluttering in my chest. It's been nearly 6 months since correcting my B12 bringing homocysteine down and all of those symptoms are gone! Surprisingly, or perhaps not so surprising, is that my B12 was 247 pg/mL which was "still within the range" according to the nurse that I saw. Thank goodness I didn't listen to her. My B12 is now up around 900-1000 pg/mL and my homocysteine has come down to around 9 µmol/L.

NHE
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:34 am

I'll see how I go. The cardiac medications may have an influence on those tests. I really don't know how they work because they changed them a few times. Still think I am on the right track but there's many ways to get to the end.
Regards
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:51 pm

I doubt other tests will work now. The prednisolone is pushing my blood sugars all out of wack so it may be distorting other readings as well. I am also on beta blockers temporarily which I don't enjoy.

I wouldn't trust any test at the moment.
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby NHE » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:34 am

Scott1 wrote:I doubt other tests will work now. The prednisolone is pushing my blood sugars all out of wack so it may be distorting other readings as well. I am also on beta blockers temporarily which I don't enjoy.

I wouldn't trust any test at the moment.


Hi Scott,
Don't talk yourself out getting your B12 tested. It might be best to ask your doctor if he thinks the test would be worthwhile considering all of your other current meds.
User avatar
NHE
Volunteer Moderator
 
Posts: 4557
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby lyndacarol » Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:06 am

Hi Scott,
Prednisolone (Solu-Medrol) not only raises a person's blood sugar level (and, in response, the insulin level), but according to page 72 in the book, Could It Be B12?,:

Note: your doctor should order these tests [1. Serum B12, 2. Urine methylmalonic acid (MMA), 3. Plasma homocysteine (Hcy), and 4. HoloTc] before beginning any treatment with steroids, Copaxone, Betaseron, or Avonex (Rebif). It is unknown if treatment with these drugs alters the results of MMA, Hcy, or HoloTc test. Also, testing should be done before you try any over-the-counter or prescription B12, which will skew B12 test results.


NHE is absolutely right: ask your doctor.
User avatar
lyndacarol
Family Elder
 
Posts: 3382
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:29 pm

I appreciate the interest. They wacked me on a muscle relaxant which nearly sent me round the bend. I wont take it again. I will get a window where I can test for these things but not yet.

Regards and thanks
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Scott1 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:21 am

I'm looking at dimethyl fumurate. What influence would that have on those tests?
The reason I picked that is it most similar in activity to my way of thinking? In particular it downregulates Th1, is antioxidant and not really an immune suppressant.
User avatar
Scott1
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1301
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:00 pm

Re: Beyond Avonex and Valtrex

Postby Anonymoose » Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:55 am

Hi scott1,

I don't know what tecfidera might do to those tests. Ladymac did become anemic on it so maybe it will affect other levels.

As for going th1 to th2, when I did that with fenofibrate it felt great...until I stopped. Details are in my fenofibrate regimen thread. My reaction to stopping is what lead me to going after ebv with rituxan and valtrex. No idea if my thinking was correct...

Good luck with your big decision.
Anonymoose
Family Elder
 
Posts: 1123
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:33 am

PreviousNext

Return to Regimens

 


  • Related topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


Contact us | Terms of Service