MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:23 am

But I thought MS was primarily driven by an aberrant Th1 inflammatory response rather than a suppressed Th1 response as Marshall states in the karolinska handout:

1: J Immunol. 2006 Sep 15;177(6):4196-202. Links
Innate immunity in multiple sclerosis: myeloid dendritic cells in secondary progressive multiple sclerosis are activated and drive a proinflammatory immune response.Karni A, Abraham M, Monsonego A, Cai G, Freeman GJ, Hafler D, Khoury SJ, Weiner HL.
Center for Neurologic Diseases, Brigham and Women's Hospital, Harvard Medical School, Havard Medical School, Boston, MA 02115-5817, USA.

Multiple sclerosis (MS) is postulated to be a T cell-mediated autoimmune disease characterized clinically by a relapsing-remitting (RR) stage followed by a secondary progressive (SP) phase. The progressive phase is felt to be secondary to neuronal degenerative changes triggered by inflammation. The status of the innate immune system and its relationship to the stages of MS is not well understood. Dendritic cells (DCs) are professional APCs that are central cells of the innate immune system and have the unique capacity to induce primary immune responses. We investigated circulating myeloid DCs isolated directly from the blood to determine whether there were abnormalities in myeloid DCs in MS and whether they were related to disease stage. We found that SP-MS subjects had an increased percentage of DCs expressing CD80, a decreased percentage expressing PD-L1, and an increased percentage producing IL-12 and TNF-alpha compared with RR-MS or controls. A higher percentage of DCs from both RR and SP-MS patients expressed CD40 compared with controls. We then investigated the polarization effect of DCs from MS patients on naive T cells taken from cord blood using a MLR assay. Whereas DCs from RR-MS induced higher levels of Th1 (IFN-gamma, TNF-alpha) and Th2 (IL-4, IL-13) cytokines compared with controls, DCs from SP-MS only induced a polarized Th1 response. These results demonstrate abnormalities of DCs in MS and may explain the immunologic basis for the different stages and clinical patterns of MS.
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On the other hand my improvements on the curcumin and boswellia alone came to a bit of a stiffening halt after I added Vit D and withania somnifera...
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:40 am

ah, good old marshall. it's been a while since i had a look at his study design but i don't recall being impressed. i have to head out today might not have time to read all this today but when i get back i'll review.
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:46 am

just for a starting point, i would argue that i had plenty of brain lesions before i ever supplemented vitamin D3. after, i would say that my failure to balance my intake with magnesium and calcium likely could have pulled some minerals from tissue that could have resulted in more lesions. my magnesium was certainly way down, but that's being fixed. re lesions, we'll have to see after the next MRI.
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Postby gibbledygook » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:51 am

Well, quite - I also didn't start supplementing with Vit D until my diagnosis. I was already really struggling to walk BEFORE I started vit D supplementation. As an office worker I hardly saw the light of day for years...
3 years antibiotics, 06/09 bilateral jug stents at C1, 05/11 ballooning of both jug valves, 07/12 stenting of renal vein, azygos & jug valve ballooning,
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jun 20, 2008 7:58 am

yep i hear you.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:31 am

okay so i got my latest d3 prescription back in february, but i thought optimistically that with summer coming perhaps i could wait on taking the high dose. so turns out i've been inside a heck of a lot this summer, sadly. booo! i'll be getting back out of doors for the fall and winter, just in time for sunlight to be useless around here, great. lol!
recently, i went to the pharmacy with my new prescription. they still had the remainder of the bottle from my first order back in march 06. it was expired. they said they couldn't order more until they get a few orders together. which obviously was not going to happen, since i'm clearly the only one megadosing liquid d3 in this area.
so i looked at the bottle and it had a price tag on it. i asked, why don't i just buy the whole bottle then? what's your dispensing fee? and it sounded reasonable enough, and i think because i didn't even want the diluted part, that the prescription aspect went out the window.
and so, as of now, i am in possession of a nice little brown bottle of d3, at a concentration of 1,000,000 IU/gm. and a little oral use syringe. looks like there's enough there for a couple of the 10 day stints at 50,000IU per day (a couple of drops). will post a pic of it shortly i think.
oh yeah and grand total investment: CDN$42.79
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:05 am

my d3 prescription
Image
Last edited by jimmylegs on Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:07 am

i'm skipping the 4000IU daily maintenance part this time even though it says that on the bottle. i'm just going to take a few short term high dose blasts over the next year or so and get the bloodwork done in between.
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:43 am

i just put about 25,000IU of d3 liquid (1 drop, the smallest amt i can get to come out of the oral syringe) in a spoonful of my morning blackberry yoghurt. can't taste it at all. so much nicer than 25 pills would be hehe
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Postby Cleremond2000 » Tue Oct 28, 2008 1:00 pm

Wow....that's a lot of Vit D3.

Be careful.

Let us know how you're doing.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 28, 2008 5:14 pm

it's all good, thanks for your concern :)

i have done this before in early 2006, 50,000iu per day for 10 days, and then 4000iu per day sporadically for the next year. by late 2007 i had stopped because i was in australia and summer was coming on.

at the end of 2007 i was pretty sick and my d3 was actually down pretty far. discussed my issues with a pharmacist who suggested magnesium. taking magnesium fixed me up quickly.

i am not sure which factors combine to make you lose magnesium but d3 really does need it, and i think that could have been at least partly responsible despite the delay in impact. perhaps i am also low in potassium or some other factor. i don't seem to be able to absorb much magnesium whether i'm taking d3 or not. probably will try taking it through the skin instead.

i haven't been taking the d3 consistently at all, 25,000iu once every one or two weeks. once i'm done moving and get settled in i'll throw the weekly dose into my outlook calendar and get organized :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:44 pm

hey meegs there are lots of other d3 topics here at tims but this one is my learning curve thread so to speak. it gets into a lot more than vit d3 eventually, but it'll probably make useful background reading.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Thanks Jimmy!

Postby Meegs » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:22 pm

Great reading... much appreciated :D
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:01 pm

heya no worries :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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