MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:26 am

had a good appointment with my family doc tuesday. got all caught up on the news since late '07. (?!?)
i have a new lab requisition which i will take in next friday i think. i'll leave it to one week for the washout of supplements, starting tomorrow. eep!
this trip will be testing

-b12
-25 hydroxyvitamind3
-ferritin
-rbc folate
-zinc
-copper

magnesium is on there too, but i have to try to confirm the most valid assay. i don't know what kind of test my lab defaults to when it just says "magnesium" on the lab requisition.

i mentioned selenium in the appointment but it's not related to ms specifically, and it's one i'd have to pay for.. i'm content to do a bit more reading along those lines before looking into costs and such.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Postby peekaboo » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:18 pm

Jimmylegs said

mentioned selenium in the appointment but it's not related to ms specifically, and it's one i'd have to pay for..


Selenium is used by the thyroid. it was prescibed by an endocronlogist and U are correct that eateinga few brazil nuts would = 200mcgs

I also like to supplement zinc with shelled pumpkin seeds aka pepitas. great on salads as well as munchies :!:
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:38 pm

hi peek, holy moly you pay attention to the fine print don'tcha!

http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-55426.html#55426
-apparently you can get the daily selenium requirement from 3 brazil nuts


anyway i am not using my current brazil nut rations for thyroid specifically, but for skin issues, which for all i know at this early stage may go straight back to thyroid function! what evidence did you have that your thyroid needed selenium, peek?

i am not a fan of pumpkin seeds or brazil nuts unfortunately... nuts and seeds were pretty much absent from my diet before all this happened!

as it is, i'm grinding the brazil nuts and hiding them in soup or sauce... not quite as determined to get the pumpkin seeds in there yet, but i bet i could sneak them into something eventually :)

i still do still have a 200mcg selenium supplement in the house, plus the ubiquitous 50mg zinc.
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Postby peekaboo » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:52 pm

jimmylegs -

I think U & I have the same interest in herb, vitamin, & mineral healing.

what evidence did you have that your thyroid needed selenium,


I was going to a bio-identical hormone dr. not only tested for hormone levels but also adreanl gland and thyroid levels as well. and my thyroid was a bit off and he prescribed selenim 100-200 mcg a day. I take an adrenal support herbs to dampen cortisol levels rx'd

H
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Postby jimmylegs » Thu Apr 09, 2009 3:58 pm

dampen cortisol with pumpkin seeds! :D
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1702662
Zinc acutely and temporarily inhibits adrenal cortisol secretion in humans.

what's in the herbal mix?
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Postby peekaboo » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:28 am

Boy i can get lost in these forums...i couldnt remeber where i was to reply about herbs...

anyway i am not using my current brazil nut rations for thyroid specifically, but for skin issues,


What kind of skin issues - there is oregeno oil one can use topically and orally. Oregeno is an anti fungal anti bacterial agent..if you take it orally it will impact negatively the obsorbtion of other supplements.

In my herbal medicine bible "back to eden" it says to make a strong tea of clover blossoms drink freely also reccommend chickweed tea as well stating that it taste like spinach
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:41 am

autoimmune inflammatory skin issues - psoriasis
i'm starting work on it with oral d3 selenium and fish oil at this stage, some of it cleared up when i fixed my zinc issue, but by no means is it all gone. i backed off on my pharma ointment so it's not fun.
if i can get out in lots of sun this summer that will make a big difference. i don't know why all this vitamin d3 that i take doesn't have the same effect!
so clover and chickweed against cortisol? interesting. actually i have an herb book on the shelf too haven't looked at it in 10 years, maybe i'll see what it has to say..
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Postby peekaboo » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:46 am

I'm sorry the herbs were listed for skin conditions not to replace vit D I must have digressed and went of forum topic :(
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 10, 2009 11:48 am

meh, no worries. it only started as my d3 regimen thread, it's so much more now lol
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:44 am

so, went for my bloodwork this morning - b12, d3, ferritin, RBC folate, uric acid, copper, zinc and magnesium. big pile o phials.

remembered not to have coffee beforehand so as not to affect the uric acid reading (apparently can cause a false high result - i don't think they are going to be using the best methodology ever so figured it might be something to consider).

like a twit though, i did have a sip of this new coconut water stuff, without thinking - it wasn't very sweet but it does have that fructose thing going, which does raise uric acid. oh well, we shall see. maybe it was weak enough that i'll get a pretty clear picture.

anyway the lab did not offer a sublingual magnesium assay - apparently the folks at the lab are not allowed to do anything like swabs - so it'll just be another serum test for now, and too bad that i've been sneaking bits of magnesium in this past week.

i'm just done a nice brunch - will go dump in some vitamins now :D
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Postby skydog » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:39 pm

Thoughts on magnesium crystals for foot bath, or a good soak after along day? From what I have read this is a good way to get your mag level. If nothing else it feels great to soak in the warm bath even when it means literally crawling into bed afterward because of the heat thing. M
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 17, 2009 6:55 pm

it is a good way, as long as you don't overdo it. we have salts in a bowl next to the tub, but i'm clearly more of a shower person... i don't think a bath has been run here since we moved in in november! but i have thought about a nice epsom salts bath, it is true :)
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Postby jimmylegs » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:49 pm

all right, some preliminary numbers are in from the lab..

Code: Select all
    11/30/07 4/17/09  range        target
b12   542.00  430.00  198.0-615.0 >=500pmol/L   
d3     74.00  103.00   22.5- 94.3 >=100nmol/L
zinc    8.60   11.60   11.5- 18.5 ~18.2umol/L
UA    194.00  255.00  140.0-360.0  ~300nmol/L
fe     82.00   91.00   10.0-291.0   TBD  ug/L
mg       .88     .94     .7-  1.0* >0.9mmol/L
cu       N/A   18.20   11.0- 30.0  TBD umol/L                                 

*mag ref range incorrect, see MAGNESIUM item below


B12 :? i stopped taking in high doses on its own. i still take b-complex nearly every day, at least b50 or b100. i'll probably add some of the old b12 1000mcg sublinguals for a week or so.

D3 :?: TBD. probably backed up in the lab from everyone and their dog getting tested lately. UPDATE: it was 103, which is okay but i decided 150 would be better so did some more supplementing. read on to find out what happened at the next d3 test...

ZINC :?: TBD. this trip's zinc result is not in yet.. but i had already found out it was improved from the deficient 8.6, up to around 20.5 or something last test. this latest test is to find out if i've found the 18.2 happy place, and also to compare to uric acid since correcting zinc deficiency. UPDATE: it was only 11.6. have had another test since then, read on...

URIC ACID :D is AWESOME. i read some studies that had me thinking the UA status would improve once i dealt with that zinc deficiency. TRUE! still have a ways to go, though.

IRON :) ferritin 82 ug/L was "probably not iron deficient" and so is 91. you have to get up to 140 to be "not iron deficient" and over 400 is "possible iron overload". i'm happy with it being a little better.

MAGNESIUM :) the magnesium test was a serum test. that's all the lab had. the tech said, only the doc can do any kind of swab testing. serum is not ideal for mag, i believe it's 1% of the body's magnesium is in the serum. that said, if it has to be serum, i'm glad that i'm up over .9 now, because i definitely had symptoms at .88 (for that matter i still have symptoms just not as bad)

on serum magnesium and the 'normal range':

Journal of the American College of Nutrition, Vol. 23, No. 6, 730S-731S (2004)
About the Misdiagnosis of Magnesium Deficiency
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/23/6/730S
...In patients with Mg serum values lower than 0.9 mmol/l Mg, magnesium supplementation is recommended; for patients with values lower than 0.8 mmol/l, starting Mg supplementation is necessary. We recommend that a mMg serum value of 0.9 mmol/l Mg be considered as the lower reference limit, in evaluating symptoms or diseases suspected as being associated with Mg deficiency. In this case, Mg has to be used as a first choice therapy. When symptoms of the MDS are found, patients with serum values of less than 0.8 mmol/l Mg, or better 0.9 mmol/l Mg, ... [not automatically] normomagnesemic.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue May 05, 2009 2:10 pm

got some more info from the lab today, and updated the table accordingly, above (prev page, that is).

zinc came in still quite low at 11.6. i'm surprised the uric acid increased so much when i only got the zinc raised from 8.6 in nov '07 to 11.6 now (not counting that high blip in early '08!)

once i get the mix right and can keep the zinc closer to 18, i am hoping my uric acid levels will be right up near 300.

stupid copper, 18.2 is too high - that's where i want the zinc! will need to take steps on this.

d3 still pending.
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Postby jimmylegs » Tue May 05, 2009 2:23 pm

http://www.nutritional-healing.com.au/c ... r%20excess

# Serum copper levels are classified as follows:
* 12.5 to 17.5 umol/L or 80 to 110 ug/dL = normal
* 17.5 to 20.0 umol/L or 110 to 125 ug/dL = high normal
* > 20.0 umol/L or > 125 ug/dL = high

The basis of copper lowering treatment is using nutrients which reduce copper levels. These are zinc, manganese, molybdenum, vitamin C and vitamin B6. Water filtration is recommended to minimize copper intake from water. Avoiding copper containing supplements is also suggested.

so, i came in at high normal. i have all those things in my cupboard to treat it, but clearly have not been diligent enough with the zinc... and i mostly ignore the manganese - don't know that much about it yet. perhaps it is time to learn!
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