This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

Hi, Jimmy. Got the results of the D-related blood work taken 2 weeks ago. I know..units, units, units.

Vit. D: 151 ng./mL---Still way too high
PTH: 25.6 pg./ml- normal
calcium:8.8mg./dl

I was avoiding calcium like the plague for fear of kidney stones from the D overdose. I started eating a normal amount of cheeses and dark leafy greens 3-4 days ago- just had the urge for some calcium rich foods. Thanks again for your help.

Sandy

hey there momma, i had to scout around a bit to find the back story and re-read
http://www.thisisms.com/ftopicp-56069-.html#56069

lol nice to see those units!
do you know if your test was total calcium, or ionized calcium? i suspect that your calcium food urges and your normal PTH level indicate that your 8.8 result is a total calcium one, and that you are on the low side for serum calcium. can you confirm the type of test you had? 8.8 total calcium with normal PTH should certainly put your mind to rest over the hypercalcemia issue.

and now, what then to do about your lingering high d3..

i wonder if calcium intake is a d3 regulator, boosting low d3 levels http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/jour ... 1&SRETRY=0, and helping bring down high d3 levels.

i found a study that looked at calcium study and d3 receptors in the kidneys of rats. VERY INTERESTING. i suggest that you might be okay to take some supplemental calcium to help deal with the d3.

so what to aim for? i'm having a bit of trouble getting decent numbers for healthy controls in order to get a calcium target. but at least i can find a potential minimum (9) and a maximum (9..

the upper 'normal' range for serum calcium is associated with more disease - i read two studies; one put the cutoff at 9.8 and the other at 10.
optimal point inside that 9-9.8 range pending!

JL

Hi, Jimmy. It was total calcium. Lately that urge for the cheeses and greens has subsided. I'd assess dietary calcium at about 800-1000 mg. So, I guess I could do with a bit more.

good stuff momma, do you think maybe the dietary change bumped you up a notch from the recent calcium result? you think a few hundred extra milligrams a day for a week or two wouldn't hurt?

your kidney function tests looked okay didn't they (to non-expert eyes that is...).. if you are still concerned about overdoing it, ie if supplements sound threatening, maybe upping the greens again for a couple of weeks could do the trick, get the calcium up another notch, and hopefully help your body get that d3 sorted out the more quickly.

personally, without having bloodwork to back it up, i do think i've overdone the calcium in the past, trying to match it to my high d3 intake at the time. i felt it as mild back pain and backed off on the minerals for a while, pain went away, no drama. whether that's any reassurance i don't know but just thought i would say

are you scheduled for more followup d3 testing?

JL

Yeah, I think my blood calcium should be a bit higher next time it is tested. I'm due for more blood work in about 2 weeks.

Didn't get the full blood work report for this month. Kidneys and liver have been well within normal in the past. Of course, I've been getting much more sunlight lately, but I would assume my body will just not be converting the vit. D I make from the sun into the active form. I could be wrong about that, though. Thanks again for your help.

Sandy

i think you're right momma, about it not converting.

hope you keep up the greens etc til the next tests!

i hope that d3 is sorted by next tests too - i'll keep an eye out in case you post your next results at all

take it easy!
JL

an interesting article to me (by a CF patient) ...considering my vegan background...

http://www.westonaprice.org/moderndisea ... lance.html
Copper-Zinc Imbalance: Unrecognized Consequence of Plant-Based Diets and a Contributor to Chronic Fatigue

...plant-based diets, and lighter diets generally, cause serious nutrient imbalances and long-term damage to digestion and cellular metabolism that are not easily corrected. This is of consequence for us in the traditional foods movement because we are asking people to return to higher density foods they may not have eaten for many years. Proper physiologic balance can be restored, but the period of transition in some cases may be longer and more difficult than we have anticipated.

holy crow, i got in the mood to crack my scary bottle of 500mg niacin pills yesterday. i chickened out and broke the first one in half, 250 last night and 250 this morning. WOW. i don't think i used to take this much back when i was doing the klenner thing around this time in '06. i am burning from head to toe!! i don't remember the flush making it all the way down to my lower legs before..

So when you say "burning", does that mean it's painful? My parents were considering niacin for cholesterol control but decided against because of flushing.

yea with it being this strong, i guess it did. you can usually feel a bit warm in the face, sort of sunburnt, and then it travels. heart might race a little and sometimes you catch your breath a bit. it's a little prickly in the thick of it.

with this latest couple of doses, i didn't get much in the way of heart or breathing symptoms, but i certainly got more red than i ever have before, and it prickled more, and then i got very chilled and took a long hot shower hehe

So is it necessary to take a high dose that causes flushing? Is a dose low enough not to cause flushing just useless?

heya, it is supposed to be okay to get a slight flush. first time i ever got a flush was off a mere 50 mg. on the klenner regimen i think i took more. i don't know how i got this bottle of 500mg pills home, maybe i thought it said 50? anyway yea i'd say 50 is too much. one interesting thing to note is that some people don't get a niacin flush reaction at all. such as schizophrenics. the absent flush response in schizophrenic patients is supposed to be due to an essential fatty acid deficiency. bizarre! anyway here's a quote from someone quoting hoffer, one of the orthomolecular crew:
"When you flush, you can literally see and feel that you've taken enough niacin. The idea is to initially take just enough niacin to have a slight flush. This means a pinkness about the cheeks, ears, neck, forearms and perhaps elsewhere. A slight niacin flush should end in about ten minutes or so. If you take too much niacin, the flush may be more pronounced and longer lasting. If you flush beet red for half an hour and feel weird, well, you took too much. And large doses of niacin on an empty stomach is certain to cause profound flushing. (JL: yep that would be me!!!)
Dr. Hoffer writes: "With larger initial doses, the flush is more pronounced and lasts longer," says Dr. Hoffer. "But with each additional dose, the intensity of the flush decreases and in most patients becomes a minor nuisance rather than an irritant. Niacin should always be taken immediately after finishing ones meal."

d3 is in. 103 nmol/L.
aiming for 50 higher than that.
therefore am once again on 50,000IU/d for 10d. today is day 5.

as of today have another lab req for zinc, uric acid, copper.
also selenium.
d3, e, and a down the road a bit.

jun 19 labwork is starting to come in.

i actually overdid it with the D3!?!
instead of getting it up to 150 like the first time, this time around it went from 103 to 271 nmol/L!!!
i think this might be because of fixing the zinc deficiency, but i'm not clear on exactly how yet.

more good news re: zinc and uric acid. i'm up to 16.1 with the zinc, and the uric acid has jumped again, right in synch - it's at 278 now!!! only 12 more to go.

copper is higher, unexpectedly. it's gone from 18.2 to 19.

i got vitamin a and e tested for the first time. the lab submitted the blood in the wrong kind of vial so i'm not sure if the results are accurate.

but, the vita a result such as it is, was 2.33. it's just above the middle of the normal range but i have to do some reading to figure out the 'healthy controls' target.

the vit e result was a surprise - if accurate, it's really really high at 57.6 (normal 7.0 - 36.7)
i don't really take lots of e complex as a rule, usually not even close to the tolerable upper intake level

i don't have any vit e toxicity symptoms as far as i can tell. it could be affecting my vit k and blood clotting, but i did nick myself this morning and it didn't bleed like crazy or anything.
all the same, i'll be leaving the vit e alone for a while.

still waiting for the selenium to come back.

that's all for the moment!

JL,

How have you been doing otherwise - clinically, so to speak? Any major new or continuing symptoms?