MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:51 am

in response to general-discussion-f1/topic20901.html :

so i assume no one bothered to check anyone's zinc status (immune system, fertility) before they ran this study :S sheesh.

Increase in multiple sclerosis activity after assisted reproduction technology
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 1C6.d01t03
"Sixteen patients with relapsing–remitting MS subjected to 26 ART treatment cycles receiving gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists and recombinant follicle-stimulating hormone were studied prospectively."

so regarding those treatments...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotrop ... ne_agonist
"A gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonist (GnRH agonist, GnRH–A) is a synthetic peptide modeled after the hypothalamic neurohormone GnRH that interacts with the gonadotropin-releasing hormone receptor to elicit its biologic response, the release of the pituitary hormones FSH and LH."

okay, so does the body need zinc to do that properly? apparently:

Dietary Zinc Deficiency Alters 5a-Reduction and Aromatization ...
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/126/4/842.full.pdf
"Zinc plays an essential role in the synthesis and secretion of luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH)"

i'll have to read further to understand why adding synthetic crutches for low zinc function would actually exacerbate ms symptoms. my initial hypothesis is that the body will do a sort of triage to allocate available zinc resources, and that when zinc is low, as in ms, then in certain individuals reproductive function may not make the cut. then, if the hormones are adjusted artificially, the body is forced to assign zinc to reproductive biochemistry, and therefore other body systems may suffer.

interesting. sucks for the study participants though.

@LR1234 re clomid

Effects of clomiphene citrate on pituitary luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone release in women before and after treatment with ethinyl estradiol.
"Clomiphene citrate needs a basal E level to be able to act on the pituitary. In normoestrogenic states and under GnRH stimulation, CC preferentially promotes FSH release while presenting a predominantly inhibitory effect on LH release."
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:41 pm

working on a presentation, ended up here

Zinc Supplementation Modifies Tight Junctions and Alters Barrier Function of CACO-2 Human Intestinal Epithelial Layers.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22903217
Abstract
BACKGROUND: Zinc deficiency is known to result in epithelial barrier leak in the GI tract. Precise effects of zinc on epithelial tight junctions (TJs) are only beginning to be described and understood. Along with nutritional regimens like methionine-restriction and compounds such as berberine, quercetin, indole, glutamine and rapamycin, zinc has the potential to function as a TJ modifier and selective enhancer of epithelial barrier function.
AIMS: The purpose of this study was to determine the effects of zinc-supplementation on the TJs of a well-studied in vitro GI model, CACO-2 cells.
METHODS: Barrier function was assessed electrophysiologically by measuring transepithelial electrical resistance (R(t)), and radiochemically, by measuring transepithelial (paracellular) diffusion of (14)C-D-mannitol and (14)C-polyethyleneglycol. TJ composition was studied by Western immunoblot analyses of occludin, tricellulin and claudins-1 to -5 and -7.
RESULTS: Fifty- and 100-μM zinc concentrations (control medium is 2 μM) significantly increase R(t) but simultaneously increase paracellular leak to D-mannitol. Claudins 2 and 7 are downregulated in total cell lysates, while occludin, tricellulin and claudins-1, -3, -4 and -5 are unchanged. Claudins-2 and -7 as well as tricellulin exhibit decreased cytosolic content as a result of zinc supplementation.
CONCLUSIONS: Zinc alters CACO-2 TJ composition and modifies TJ barrier function selectively. Zinc is one of a growing number of "nutraceutical" substances capable of enhancing epithelial barrier function, and may find use in countering TJ leakiness induced in various disease states.


related discussion
nov 11 general discussion general-discussion-f1/topic18514-15.html#p181311
feb 12 natural approach natural-approach-f27/topic18577-75.html#p186105 (same as nov 11 post but diff context)
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:37 am

Older Adults Who Use Vitamin/Mineral Supplements Differ from Nonusers in Nutrient Intake Adequacy and Dietary Attitudes
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 230700733X
"...A large proportion of older adults do not consume sufficient amounts of many nutrients from foods alone. Supplements compensate to some extent, but only an estimated half of this population uses them daily. These widespread inadequacies should be considered when developing recommendations for supplement use for clients in this age group. Modifying dietary attitudes may result in a higher rate of supplement use in this at-risk population."
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:37 pm

note to self - find the published study.

DNA Changes That Affect Vitamin D Metabolism in Patients With Colorectal Cancer Receiving Vitamin D Supplements
http://www.bioportfolio.com/resources/t ... ancer.html
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:23 am

hot off the presses (may 2012) :roll: someone can be seronormal for zinc, yet still deficient!

A case of acquired zinc deficiency
http://dermatology.cdlib.org/1805/01_cs ... ticle.html
"The patient was initially treated with oral prednisone for two weeks without any improvement... Pertinent laboratory values showed normal zinc level ... A punch biopsy revealed marked parakeratosis with underlying epidermal hyperplasia and spongiosis. The upper epidermal layers exhibited striking pallor with hypogranulosis. No fungal organisms were identified with Periodic acid-Schiff stain (Figures 2 and 3). Serum zinc levels were within normal limits 88 µg/dL [jl edit: that's only 13.5 µmol/L]. However, given the patient’s history of gastric bypass, clinical presentation and histological findings, the patient was diagnosed with a nutritional deficiency. Moreover, the patient began supplementation with zinc sulfate 220 mg/day with near resolution of his hand dermatitis in just 6 days, further supporting the diagnosis. Although biotin and essential fatty acid deficiency are in the differential diagnosis, the rapid improvement of the patient’s skin after only zinc supplementation suggested zinc deficiency to be the cause.
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:16 am

reposting from general-discussion-f1/topic19529.html#p188525

RESEARCH
fyi...
Clinical significance of the laboratory determination of low serum copper in adults.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17727313
"Abstract
BACKGROUND: Low serum copper is often indicative of copper deficiency. [JL edit: ie low normal *and* deficient - low normal does not equate to healthy] Acquired copper deficiency can cause hematological/neurological manifestations. Wilson disease (copper toxicity) is associated with neurological manifestations and low serum copper, with copper deposited in tissues responsible for the toxicity. Low serum copper can also be observed in some carriers of the Wilson disease gene and aceruloplasminemia. This study was undertaken to determine the clinical significance of low serum copper.
METHODS: The Mayo Medical Laboratories', Metals Laboratory database was reviewed over a 9-month period to identify patients who received their care at the Mayo Clinic and had low serum copper. The medical records were analyzed to determine the significance of the low copper.
RESULTS: In six of the 57 patients with low serum copper, the low copper was due to Wilson disease. In the remaining 51 patients, copper deficiency due to an underlying cause was identified in 38 as a reason for the low serum copper. The most commonly identified neurological manifestation of copper deficiency was myeloneuropathy. Coexisting nutrient deficiencies and hematological manifestations of copper deficiency were often but not invariably present.
CONCLUSIONS: Copper deficiency, Wilson disease (or a carrier state), and aceruloplasminemia are all associated with low serum copper. The presence of coexisting neurological or hematological manifestations that are recognized sequelae of copper deficiency should be considered prior to making a diagnosis of copper deficiency. Gastrointestinal disease or surgery is a common cause of acquired copper deficiency. Even in patients in whom low serum copper is indicative of copper deficiency, the cause of the copper-deficient state may not be evident."

*wish* i still had full text access. will have to scout to determine possible 'coexisting nutrient deficiencies'.

here's another interesting study (yahoo, full text! hehe):
Copper Deficiency Myeloneuropathy Resembling B12 Deficiency: Partial Resolution of MR Imaging Findings with Copper Supplementation
http://www.ajnr.org/content/27/10/2112.full

that's really interesting, since b12 deficiency is a known syndrome which looks very similar to MS, but i have never heard or read anything before about ruling out copper deficiency before dxing MS.

COPPER DEFICIENCY SYNDROME
my fave vitamin syndrome web site, on copper - check this out for sure, long list of neuro signs and symptoms, you can compare notes:
http://neuromuscular.wustl.edu/nother/v ... htm#copper

A TARGET COPPER LEVEL
here's a healthy controls serum copper level (again, full text!) see page 30, tables 3 and 4 for the serum values
http://hera.ugr.es/doi/15028227.pdf
the mean level was 1.10 mg/l. (recall the copper-zinc ratio is important - notice that only in one case did the sick patients have higher copper levels than healthy controls, but all the sick folks had much lower zinc levels compared to the healthies)

anyway. si units for clinical data
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scale ... _data.html
conversion factor: µg/dL 0.157 µmol/L

so since we're starting with mg/l which doesn't match, we'll say *1000 on the top to get µg, and /10 on the bottom to get dL, so overall multiply by 100 to get to ug/dL which gives us 110. *0.157 = 17.3 umol/L.

here's another study where mean serum copper in healthy controls was 114.84 (μg/100 ml) (which is μg/dL but hey, why be straightforward :S)
which converts over to 18.0 µmol/L:

Evaluation of serum copper and iron levels among oral submucous fibrosis patients
http://www.medicinaoral.com/pubmed/medo ... 7_p870.pdf
(table 1, p. e872)

so, 100-114 ug/dL or 17.3-18 umol/L looks like a plausible 'sweet spot'. did they tell you your exact result? if not, can you get it?

THE COPPER 'NORMAL RANGE'
reference range according to wiki is 70-150 μg/dL (11.0-23.6µmol/L ) which as usual is much wider than where you find the controls in health and disease research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_ ... lood_tests (you have to scroll right on the graphic table to find the ug/dL section)

interestingly, in this case the healthy controls mean does appear to sit very close to the centre of the reference range (110) aka peak of the bell curve. not always the case.

HEALTHY FOODS RICH IN COPPER
foods rich in copper: http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=nutrient&dbid=53
eg Calf liver, Crimini Mushrooms, and Asparagus are excellent; Swiss Chard, Spinach, Sesame Seeds, Kale and Cashews are very good.

(interesting, many of those foods are also rich in zinc and/or magnesium).

it should be very interesting to see what resolves as your serum copper levels go up. just make sure you don't inadvertently drive zinc down with copper supplements!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Oct 14, 2012 3:06 pm

well i got up bright and early yesterday morning and went to give my first presentation on all this stuff, in 'real life' :) kinda fun and a little nerve-wracking at the same time!
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Oct 16, 2012 5:11 am

wow just ran across this hypervolemia thing, while trying to track down interaction info re magnesium deficiency

http://bestpractice.bmj.com/best-practi ... nosis.html
Signs of hypervolaemia
These include jugular venous distension and peripheral oedema, and may indicate hyperaldosteronism, cirrhosis, or obstructive uropathy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervolemia
Hypervolemia, or fluid overload, is the medical condition where there is too much fluid in the blood.

Causes
Excessive sodium or fluid intake:
...
High intake of sodium[1]

Sodium or water retention:
...
Low protein intake[1]

The excess fluid, primarily salt and water, builds up in various locations in the body ... Eventually, the fluid enters the air spaces in the lungs, reduces the amount of oxygen that can enter the blood, and causes shortness of breath (dyspnea). Fluid can also collect in the lungs when lying down at night, possibly making nighttime breathing and sleeping difficult
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:22 am

so i thought, given that zinc is low in ms and affects utilization of other nutrients, that i would revisit the known connection between zinc and vit a status. sure enough, found an interesting study detailing poor vit a status in ms patients, and when i went to check if i had previously posted it, i found it in the regimen thread on what is currently page 6, dated 2007. the next post was quite a blast from the past. my situation and thoughts in sept 2007 were so scary and dark and due to circumstances at the time, my interest in vit A ended up quickly sidetracked onto an important magnesium tangent.

regimens-f22/topic2489-75.html#p30403
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Oct 28, 2012 4:32 pm

revisiting retinol and ms...

1) the retinol - ms connection

this is the article i found back in 07:

Retinol measurements and retinoid receptor gene expression in patients with multiple sclerosis (2002)
http://msj.sagepub.com/content/8/6/452.abstract
"The mean plasma retinol level for untreated relapsing-remitting (RR) MS patients was lower than for patients with noninflammatory neurological disease. Among IFN-β1a-treated RR patients, mean levels were slightly higher than for RR patients not on treatment... These studies suggest an association between plasma retinol levels and clinical disease activity in patients with MS and that treatment with IFN-β1a may be associated with activation of specific retinoid receptor subtypes."

Retinol levels are associated with magnetic resonance imaging outcomes in multiple sclerosis (2012)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22907941
"Each 1 µmol/L increase in serum-retinol reduced the odds (95% confidence interval) for new T1 gadolinium enhanced (Gd(+)) lesions by 49 (8-70)%, new T2 lesions by 42 (2-66)%, and combined unique activity (CUA) by 46 (3-68)% in simultaneous MRI scans... Serum-retinol also predicted new T1Gd(+) and T2 lesions six months ahead. CONCLUSION: Serum retinol is inversely associated with simultaneous and subsequent MRI outcomes in RRMS."

2) retinol - an optimal level?

Vitamin A not associated with exacerbations in multiple sclerosis
http://registration.akm.ch/einsicht.php ... KEN_ID=900
"Mean vitamin A levels were a little lower in patients (2.16 µmol/l) than in controls (2.44µmol/l), but this difference was only borderline significant (p=0.05)... retinol levels were categorized into tertiles: a low (<2.9 µmol/l), medium (2.9-3.7 µmol/l) and high level (>3.7 µmol/l)."

so the controls were in the low tertile? this needs more work.

conversion factor "Vitamin A (retinol) µg/dL 0.0349 µmol/L"
http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/scale ... _data.html

3) on zinc and vit A interactions:

Synergistic effect of zinc and vitamin A on the biochemical indexes of vitamin A nutrition in children (2002)
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/75/1/92.short
"Zinc deficiency limits the bioavailability of vitamin A... The proportion of children whose retinol binding protein concentrations remained low was significantly lower in the ZA group than in the other groups (P < 0.05)... Combined zinc and vitamin A supplementation improves vitamin A nutriture in vitamin A–deficient children."

Zinc plus β-carotene supplementation of pregnant women is superior to β-carotene supplementation alone in improving vitamin A status in both mothers and infants (2004)
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/80/5/1299.short
"Zinc supplementation during pregnancy improved the vitamin A status of mothers and infants postpartum, which indicates a specific role of zinc in vitamin A metabolism. Addition of both β-carotene and zinc ... supplements during pregnancy could be effective in improving the vitamin A status of mothers and infants."
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:01 pm

interesting figures - tables correlating retinol status to various cancer types/locations

http://medind.nic.in/iaf/t04/i1/iaft04i1p36.pdf
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby Scott1 » Sun Nov 04, 2012 12:39 am

Hi JL

To quote from that article (page 38) "In recent years;retinoids have been shown to modify gene expression through the mediation of intracellular binding proteins and nuclear receptors."
The Vitamin A breaks down into a number of retinoids. The thyroid like receptor RXR is like a master switch. To upregulate it requires 9 cis retinoic acid. RXR forms a complex with VDR and it also controls PPAR. That's why I take carrot juice.
The carrot juice also supplies all trans retinoic acid which has strong anti EBV properties. RXR hetrodimerizes with both VDR and PPAR which means a complex protein is created from different macromolecules.
I think Vitamin A is very important, albeit not the whole story. It's interesting to look at role of receptors at the mitochondrial level.
As mentioned, I use Carrot Juice to upregulate RXR and I also use Olive leaf extract as a liquid to get Oleuropein which upregulates PPAR. Coenzyeme Q10 has a role in this so I take 450mg before sleep.(plus Avonex and Valtrex)
I'm almost ready to get retested after all this time and I suspect my readings will look a lot better given how I feel. The tests I am interested in are fasting amino acids, uric acid, cholesterol, insulin resistance and just to be complete Vit D. I know you will suggest Zinc levels. I've been taking a teaspoon of bicarbonate of soda twice daily to see if I can be more alkaline but I'm not sure which test is best.
Bearing in mind the cost, is there a test you'd be curious about?
I've resisted using Zinc as a supplement because I want to see if I can access it by doing the other things related to lowering EBV and peroxynitrite and upregulating receptors so what makes you curious might add a useful question to the list.

Regards,
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:59 pm

resistance is futile ;D your body needs zinc to utilize retinol. found some interesting studies:

Zinc Deficiency Induces Vascular Pro-Inflammatory Parameters Associated with NF-κB and PPAR Signaling (2008)
http://www.jacn.org/content/27/5/577.full
"Since the DNA binding domains of both PPAR and RXR have two zinc fingers [20,21], zinc deficiency could impair the function of this transcription factor complex and thus lead to inflammation"

Effect of zinc deficiency on the protein expression of vitamin D receptor and calcium binding protein in growth-stage rats duodenal mucosa (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16623997
"Zinc deficiency, by changing the activity of VDR, changes the protein expression of VDR.."

Peroxisome proliferator activated receptors alpha and gamma require zinc for their anti-inflammatory properties in porcine vascular endothelial cells. (2004)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15226458
"...Our data demonstrate the importance of zinc in PPAR signaling and the requirement of zinc for the anti-inflammatory properties of PPARalpha and -gamma agonists."

Zinc gluconate is an agonist of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor- in the epidermis (2012)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... x/abstract
"...zinc gluconate significantly upregulated PPAR- function and mRNA expression level, without changing its epidermal protein expression. These results suggest that zinc gluconate may be a PPAR- agonist, which might play a role in the anti-inflammatory activity of this molecule."

i do think serum zinc would be an extremely useful test. if you don't want to supplement zinc, you can use familiar dietary measures to slow depletion, eg dump sugar, wheat, gluten grains, dairy, high phytate foods, and so on. the best source of bioavailable dietary zinc is veal liver. oysters are up there too. i have to go, bbl
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:06 pm

i just realized i'm having a particularly meaty day today - bacon at breakfast, goat at lunch, and venison at dinner!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:03 pm

today i skipped breakfast and at lunch i had goat and bison on my plate haha :D just enjoyed a venison-kale burger, topped with delicious bacon from locally raised heritage piggies! getting to be time for a vegetarian night 8|
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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