MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:55 pm

just enjoyed a lovely meal of venison tenderloin to celebrate longest night :D
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:57 am

well i finished up the chard a couple days ago and by the end of the day i was feeling it in the large joint at the base of the big toe on my left foot. i can't believe i actually hit the wall with oxalic acid intake!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:24 am

interesting. where i have data (eg zinc 8.6 umol/L at first testing), my patient profile doesn't match this study in the slightest degree. i am not sure why they used patients in remission if they were looking to compare disease state to healthy controls.. bizarre. and furthermore, i don't imagine their 'healthy' controls will be free of disease forever with zinc levels down at 13. probably a bunch of gluten eaters :)

Circulating plasma cytokines, zinc, copper, vitamins A and E in multiple sclerosis patients and healthy controls
http://journals.cambridge.org/download. ... cbedad50cd
Previous reports including our own have shown low levels of vitamins E and A(1,2) increased or decreased Zn and Cu (3–5) and elevated pro-inflammatory cytokines (6–8) in the blood and CSF of multiple sclerosis (MS) patients. The aim of this study was to investigate therelationships between the levels of circulating plasma vitamins E and A, Zn, Cu, interferon-g (IFNg), TNFa and IL-6 in MS patients in the remission phase of the disease compared with healthy controls. ... There was no significant difference in the mean plasma levels of vitamin A, Zn, Cu, IFNg, TNFa and IL-6 between MS patients and healthy controls (Table). There was, however, a significantly (P<0.001) lower plasma vitamin E concentration in patients with MS compared with controls and the mean concentrations of IFNg, TNFa, IL-6 and copper were elevated compared with healthy controls

am i reading it wrong, or are they contradicting themselves wrt copper, right in the abstract??

i remember when i first did the modified klenner protocol i did not give vit e enough credit.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:44 am

my naturopath on castor oil packs 7:|

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_pvUBpka98

she sold me the oil in '06, but i never used it. my liver was certainly broken if my uric acid level was any indication (liver enzymes were 'normal' after all) but it needed zinc more than anything.

and about ccsvi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UuBN1mZVvo

she stresses the importance of nutrition and lifestyle, and says there will be more related info on facebook.. but if there is, i can't find it.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:28 am

Magnesium deficiency produces insulin resistance and increased thromboxane synthesis.
http://hyper.ahajournals.org/content/21 ... 1024.short
Abstract
Evidence suggests that magnesium deficiency may play an important role in cardiovascular disease. In this study, we evaluated the effects of a magnesium infusion and dietary-induced isolated magnesium deficiency on the production of thromboxane and on angiotensin II-mediated aldosterone synthesis in normal human subjects. Because insulin resistance may be associated with altered blood pressure, we also measured insulin sensitivity using an intravenous glucose tolerance test with minimal model analysis in six subjects. The magnesium infusion reduced urinary thromboxane concentration and angiotensin II-induced plasma aldosterone levels. The low magnesium diet reduced both serum magnesium and intracellular free magnesium in red blood cells as determined by nuclear magnetic resonance (186 +/- 10 [SEM] to 127 +/- 9 mM, p < 0.01). Urinary thromboxane concentration measured by radioimmunoassay increased after magnesium deficiency. Similarly, angiotensin II-induced plasma aldosterone concentration increased after magnesium deficiency. Analysis showed that all subjects studied had a decrease in insulin sensitivity after magnesium deficiency (3.69 +/- 0.6 to 2.75 +/- 0.5 min-1 per microunit per milliliter x 10(-4), p < 0.03). We conclude that dietary-induced magnesium deficiency 1) increases thromboxane urinary concentration and 2) enhances angiotensin-induced aldosterone synthesis. These effects are associated with a decrease in insulin action, suggesting that magnesium deficiency may be a common factor associated with insulin resistance and vascular disease.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:29 pm

wow another DELICIOUS meal. perhaps half an ounce of leftover venison, just over an ounce of leftover italian sausage, plus 1c baked buttercup squash (seasoned with butter maple syrup and nutmeg) and 2c steamed broccoli topped with home-made old cheddar cheese sauce. i think i liked that even better than last night's dinner. YUMMMM.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:11 pm

made a tasty super quick and easy soup tonight. pressure cookers are AWESOME.

3 smoky bones out of the freezer
1.5 c yellow split peas, washed
2 onions, chopped
1 stalk celery, chopped
1 carrot, chopped
1 bay leaf (i wuvs my bay tree)
6 rosemary sprigs
2 tsp worcester sauce
a bit of garlic, salt, white pepper
8 c water

i think that's everything. dump it all in the pressure cooker. 15lbs pressure 15 minutes and that's basically it done. just get the bay leaf out, pick out the bones, get whatever meat scraps off, give the soup a whiz with the hand blender, tip the meat in, ta da. lunch for tomorrow!

it will be rated mildly inflammatory b/c of the peas, but the veggies in it will bring it part of the way back. some veggie sticks on the side will take it the rest of the way to a good anti-inflammatory rating :)
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:31 pm

delicious dinner this eve, enoyed the colourful plateful of yellow squash with nutmeg and maple syrup, bright orange mashed sweet potato, and dark green buttered kale, with thin-sliced pink ham layered on top, plus some dijon mustard and a couple of bright pickled beets on the side. yum!
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby Killdoni » Thu Dec 27, 2012 4:15 am

hi, i'm wondering if it's ok for me to post questions to you, here.

i'm just getting into nutrition as my treatment and i'm learning. so far what you have posted has really helped, i think this can be great reference for me. thanks for that.

i'm still trying to understand zinc's important relation, but i haven't seen a lot about regulatory t cell support through diet & supplements. what are you're thoughts on things like glutathione? my naturopath jumps up and down about resveratrol/curcumin products.
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:38 pm

hi there! been off line for a couple days. of course it's fine to post questions here :) glad you are finding the info useful.

zinc has important structural roles (eg protein folding - see prion diseases for examples of what can go wrong with improper protein folding), influences genetic expression (especially in tissues with high cell turnover, such as the liver), and is key (obviously) for the proper function of any zinc-dependent enzyme (there are over a hundred if you read some sources, over 300 if you read others). as for zinc and regulatory t-cells:

Zinc deficiency in Mexican American children: influence of zinc and other micronutrients on T cells, cytokines, and antiinflammatory plasma proteins
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/4/1067.short
"Results:Before treatment the mean ± SD plasma zinc was 14.9 ± 1.7 μmol/dL and the range was within the reference; hair zinc was 1.78 ± 0.52 μmol/g and 41.6% were ≤1.68 μmol/g; serum ferritin was 25.7 ± 18.6 μg/L and 50.0% were ≤20 μg/L. The zinc and micronutrients treatment increased the lymphocyte ratios of CD4+ to CD8+ and of CD4+CD45RA+ to CD4+CD45RO+, increased the ex vivo generation of interleukin-2 (IL-2) and interferon-γ (IFN-γ), decreased the generation of interleukin-10 (IL-10), and increased plasma interleukin-1 receptor antagonist (sIL-1ra) and soluble tumor necrosis factor receptor 1 (sTNF-R1). Micronutrients alone increased the ratio of CD4+ to CD8+ but not of CD4+CD45RA+ to CD4+CD45RO+, increased IFN-γ but had no effect on IL-2 or IL-10, and increased sIL-1ra but not sTNF-R1. Efficacy of zinc and micronutrients was greater than micronutrients alone for all indexes except the ratio of CD4+ to CD8+, which was affected similarly."

as for glutathione, zinc and selenium both help your body naturally increase glutathione levels. read more here:
natural-approach-f27/topic18850-15.html#p192831

resveratrol and curcumin will have a band aid effect on a single target, meanhwile ensuring optimal nutrient levels should have broad spectrum benefits for multiple health targets. my two cents. i don't see why sticking a band aid on a broken system would be preferable to fixing the system.

my naturopath is gung ho about castor oil packs for leaky gut among other things, and also promotes a gluten free diet, but ime zinc is at the root of both probs. research zinc and intestinal permeability. zinc levels before and after gluten free diet. the research is all there.

anyway, i might not answer right away but ya feel free to ask away whenever something comes up :D
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby NHE » Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:36 am

IFN-γ and IL-2 are both Th1 cytokines and are believed to make MS worse. :?:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1345742
Early BBB impairment and focal perivascular edema that characterize MS lesions may be the effect of an IL-2-induced cytokine cascade.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2504888
Increased levels of both IL-2 and sIL-2R were found in MS serum. ... These findings confirm preliminary reports, further stress a systemic T-cell activation in MS, and support the hypothesis that an immunologic disorder exists in such patients.
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:57 pm

yeah who knows, i pretty much just posted the first thing i found that mentioned them together. i don't have the best atmosphere for working going on here, rather public and loud. have to dig in a bit more and read about the 'ex vivo' generation etc..
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby NHE » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:10 am

NHE wrote:IFN-γ and IL-2 are both Th1 cytokines and are believed to make MS worse.


To be more precise I should have said that IFN-γ is known to make MS worse and IL-2 is believed to make MS worse. Both are Th1 cytokines.

Re: IFN-γ (from the results of a small phase I clinical trial published in 1987) ...

Treatment of multiple sclerosis with gamma interferon
Exacerbations associated with activation of the immune system

Neurology July 1, 1987 vol. 37, no. 7: 1097

    We treated 18 clinically definite relapsing-remitting MS patients with recombinant gamma interferon in a pilot study designed to evaluate toxicity and dosage. Patients received low (1 μg), intermediate (30 μg), or high (1,000 μg) doses of interferon by intravenous infusion twice a week for 4 weeks. Serum levels of gamma interferon were proportional to dose and no interferon was detected in CSF. Seven of the 18 patients had exacerbations during treatment, a significant increase compared with the prestudy exacerbation rate (p < 0.01). Exacerbations occurred in all three dosage groups and were not precipitated by fever or other dose-dependent side effects. There were significant increases in circulating monocytes bearing class II (HLA-DR) surface antigen, in the proliferative responses of peripheral blood leukocytes, and in natural killer cell activity. These results show that systemic administration of gamma interferon has pronounced effects on cellular immunity in MS and on disease activity within the CNS, suggesting that the attacks induced during treatment were immunologically mediated. Gamma interferon is unsuitable for use as a therapeutic agent in MS. Agents that specifically inhibit gamma interferon production or counteract its effects on immune cells should be investigated as candidates for experimental therapy.

By the way, IL-2 is a standard treatment for some types of cancer since it cranks up the immune system to make it more aggressive.

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatme ... erleukin-2


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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby jimmylegs » Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:53 am

looking at this quickly with highly inferior access.. would that be chinese hamster ovary recombinant ifn-gamma? i can't really research effectively right now... are natural human ifn-gamma levels lower, or higher in ms patients? if higher, why would they experiment with this treatment. if lower, i would go for nutritional support of the body tissue or system or systems that produce natural human ifn-gamma.
READ ME key info on nutrient targets - www.thisisms.com/ftopict-2489.html
my approach: no meds so far - just nutrient-dense anti-inflammatory whole foods, and supplements where needed
info: www.whfoods.com, www.nutritiondata.com
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Re: MS Nutrition-summary pts 1st post, p.1

Postby Killdoni » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:42 am

hi again!

so i'm just beginning to develop care with an internist. the first that's taking me seriously on a nutritional approach to treating my ms.

i think i have all the literature (most is coming from what you've posted) i need so that she'll approve labs for zinc, uric acid, magnesium, d3, selenium, glutathione, all the b's, calcium, and iron. i shouldn't have to work to get cbc and all the routine stuff, but what else should i be looking at? i'd really appreciate you're input.

and another question..

i was diagnosed with kyphosis scoliosis in 2011. about 7 months AFTER my first ms exacerbation. before the initial ms attack THERE WERE NO SIGNS of any spinal curve at all.

this can't be coincidence right? there has to be a connection somewhere, how often do people develop scoliosis in their 20's? no health professional can give me a clear answer.

right now the health of my spine is worrying me more then ms. there is no remission in scoliosis, it sucks.
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