jimmylegs wrote:I suspect that since diet is the only accepted way to manage insulin that we may indeed have a nutrient=horse and insulin=cart scenario. in the one study they correlated high insulin with low dietary mag compared to controls, and in the other they corrected high insulin with zinc therapy, and given that dietary deficits of mag and zinc are so prevalent, seems like a reasonable conclusion. I wonder if there are studies out there where they start with normal insulin, then deplete a nutrient, and measure insulin response.
jimmylegs wrote:hey there, any chance you could get a couple tests done?
I've spent a lot of time reading about membrane permeability (including leaky gut) in research, and zinc comes up strongly on that score as well. I used to react quite badly to certain foods and since correcting the zinc deficiency the issue has resolved nicely.
had you seen these research titles I posted earlier this month?
Association of vitamin A and zinc status with altered intestinal permeability: analyses of cohort data from northeastern Brazil (2011)
Dietary supplementation with zinc and a growth factor extract derived from bovine cheese whey improves methotrexate-damaged rat intestine (2003)
Nitric oxide synthase inhibitor attenuates intestinal damage induced by zinc deficiency in rats (1999)
Enteric protein loss and intestinal permeability changes in children during acute shigellosis and after recovery: effect of zinc supplementation. (1994)
in the short term, could you give me a recap as to your daily zinc, magnesium and d3 regimen? any possibility of a three day diet diary? I could review for gaps/conflicts
if you do get tests and find that your levels are down in spite of supplementing, it could be time to examine cofactors.
here's an interesting article on zinc absorption and potential absorption issues depending on intakes of protein, phytate, other minerals, etc:
Dietary Factors Influencing Zinc Absorption
jimmylegs wrote:thanks for the info! food choices look healthy but are marginal for zinc and magnesium. although a regular 1/4c infusion of cashews should provide 100mg of magnesium which is great, if you are getting through that many.
I LOVE nuts: cashews, almonds, macadamias, walnuts, pecans, pretty much all. I easily consume a quarter cup in my snack.
oysters and calf's liver are particularly high in zinc. lamb beef and scallops are also rich sources.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
I can't bring myself to eat oysters or any liver; I eat beef a couple times a week, I eat fish at least once a week (love salmon, trout, halibut, cod), scallops occasionally.
spinach, swiss chard and pumpkin seeds are tops for dietary magnesium. a serving of halibut also delivers a hefty dose.
http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... #foodchart
do you like spanakopita? in spite of it's paper-thin excuse for pastry? //great way to work in cooked spinach by the full cup
I love spinach – usually in a salad; creamed spinach is great; I have never tried spanakopita.
may I ask if your mag glycinate is 400mg containing 70mg elemental magnesium? or is it some giant monster pill that manages to contain 400mg elemental magnesium?
I take Solaray brand magnesium glycinate, 400 mg; there is no breakout of elemental magnesium.
may I also inquire whether your zinc product is balanced with copper? fyi it's wise to monitor both serum ferritin and serum copper if high dosing zinc for any length of time.
I take Solaray zinc as zinc amino acid chelate – no copper listed. Recently, I have heard a couple cautions about too much copper; have you heard of this?
speaking of monitoring, the tests are nothing fancy - just serum magnesium (not RBC) and serum zinc (plus serum copper and serum ferritin if you can arrange it).
optimal levels are as always listed here under the subheading 'serum targets': regimens-f22/topic2489.html
if you have any trouble locating, just let me know
make sure you do a washout in advance of your September tests - will be very interesting to see your results!
jimmylegs wrote:that is great news re the nuts! they'll get you 25% of the way to a 400mg per day minimum. we should look at your dietary cal mag ratio at some point too, make sure it's in line.
as for animal sources of zinc I confess I am not an oyster fan and I don't tend to choose liver although I was given it to eat twice this week and i'll eat it even if it's not my fave. i am trying to work a variety of zinc sources into my diet in a healthful way. have not had much luck (only tried once so far) with the scallop shopping. in the meantime a moderate reduction of gluten plus a zinc supplement keeps thing in line - still working on getting the latest bloodwork results into my files though :s
glad you like creamed spinach! if you can eat it by the 1c serving, that will add at least another 100mg to your daily intake. i will post a spanakopita recipe, it is SO GOOD!!!
now as for this solaray mag glycinate product, you know i'm a fan of that particular form. question: are you taking one pill per day of those?
moving on to zinc and copper.. when taking zinc over the long term, copper and iron have the potential to suffer. and vice versa. i think the scare related to excess copper has a lot to do with the copper zinc ratio. you see a lot in the research that relates a high copper zinc ratio to illness. i have yet to see a study that related high zinc copper ratio to illness, unless it was specifically from excess zinc supplementation or exposure. as with everything else, it's smart to measure your status. you want your zinc to be right up at the high end of the WHO reference range, and the copper slightly lower so that the ratio comes out around 1.1. did you find the targets section all right? the numbers are there.
as with other essential nutrients it is possible to have too little copper. so although the tendency of an unbalanced zinc supplement to drive down copper (and iron) could be seen as beneficial in the short term, measuring would be key to preventing the overall balance from swinging too far the other way.
eep have to get ready for work! ttfn
Users browsing this forum: No registered users