to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Postby katie45 » Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:46 pm

Last edited by katie45 on Thu Apr 10, 2008 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: to add to jimmyleg's info/thiamine B1

Postby NHE » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:30 am

I had a hard time getting past this statement...
When a plant is fatigued it wilts; unless relieved of the fatigue, it dies.

Plants wilt due to a loss of turgor pressure. This is the pressure of the water inside the cells pushing against the cell walls. :roll:

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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:21 am

well without hitting the link, i see klenner. protocol developed in the 60s? 70s? there are definitely holes in his ideas but i forgive him because my application of modified klenner protocol, including b1 300mg every meal and "bed hour", got me back position sense of my hands in only a few days, i'm talking not even three days, so that i could reach for things accurately, hold them, feel when i had my hands on my wallet in my bag, write, type with all my fingers without looking, and play guitar again. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i ignored his magnesium recommendation at the time, not knowing anything about it and having had it rather up to here with reading about everything and its dog at that stage. failing to include mg would amount to suffering for me in late 2006, coming to a head in late 2007, when a mg recommendation turned me around from unable to draw a proper breath, and all the saliva in my mouth going down the wrong way, to normal breathing and no spit going into my airway, just a bit of phlegminess that i'm still working on. so regardless of any funky wilting analogies... in my experience, the man has some street cred.
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Postby katie45 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:15 pm

Jimmy...What form of B1 are you taking? Oral? I'm taking benfotiamine at present and starting im injections today when it arrives. Yes klenner's info is dated but if one looks for the logic it's there I believe(albeit simplistic) I don't think they expected any "layman reasearch" in those days(pre-internet) I too have regained some function and hope it continues improving...I still am dealing with severe lactic acidosis (very painful) I think I need to up my dosage. (about 410 mg/day right now) kathy
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:21 pm

hi katie, i have always taken all my supplements to date orally. some as liquid, mostly powder in capsules, or caplets if necessary. the b1 i used in the klenner days was caplets if i recall correctly. in more recent times i have backed off the dosage to a regular b100 complex. i really only did klenner for 3 days and it was such an amazing turnaround i didn't feel like i needed to be quite so diligent afterwards. mind you i was still taking LOTS of supplements every day, just not the whole klenner routine before and after each meal, with all the niacin flushes etc.
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Postby katie45 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:54 pm

Yes, the protocol has been revised alot over the years.. I did some reading up on beriberi and found alot of my own symptoms..also there's apparently a hereditary defect involving the thiamine transporter in some that fits my case/family history. Apart from that I think the food supply these days is grossly inadequate for all of us...k
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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:35 am

that's really interesting k! i have not looked at beri beri in some time. i should have another check. my cousin was in a health facility a while back and one of the main things they sent her home with was big daily doses of thiamine. there probably isn't enough in the daily routine, or it's getting drained, or there's an hereditary prob such as you mention
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Postby katie45 » Fri Apr 25, 2008 6:47 pm

jimmy, the greatest antithiamine contributors are coffee, abx, smoking, tea and beer (all the fun stuff) I haven't had a beer in 5 yrs but was on abx (for suspected Lyme) for over 3 yrs...nearly killed myself. go figure...
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:17 pm

ugh, abx, they had me on cycle after cycle for "UTI" (whatever!), for years, when i was in my late teens/early 20s. how many times did i find myself in the hospital!?! finally around '93/'94 a housemate recommended a naturopath, who turned me around on acidophilus (the first i had ever heard of this mysterious product), and i never looked back! so the abx are a thiamine hit... interesting!
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Postby katie45 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:16 am

yes acidolpholus makes sense...malabsorption (from the gut) is another detriment to levels of b1 being low as is diarreah. prolonged vomiting etc this is why klenner advocates im injections of both thiamine and liver extract( to avoid an imbalance) bypassing faulty digestion problems...I'm waiting for my liver extact to arrive from apothecure pharmacy in texas (I'm in canada) and will add 1cc twice/week. So far excellent results with the b1..talked to Dale Humphrey yesterday, he convinced me to up the thiamine to 400mg/once a day (that's 2 cc's) Did the first injection this morning. will keep you posted...k
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Postby katie45 » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:16 pm

'It has now been discovered that remarkably improved yields of pyruvic acid may be obtained compared with the conventional methods, by culturing pyruvic acid producing mutants of the genus Candida which require thiamine and methionine for growth '

Thought this was interesting altho I don't know quite how to tie it in to the entire picture...
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klenner protocol

Postby katie45 » Tue Apr 29, 2008 10:16 pm

MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS -
DR. F.R. KLENNER'S PROTOCOL FOR MS


Presented by Dale Humphereys, May 2003 Posted here with permission of the author
Issue #238 of The Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients, page 102


Editor:
Since the publication of my article ?Multiple Sclerosis Treated with Injectable Vitamin B1 and Liver Extract? in the TLfDP in the Feb/March 2000 issue, I have received hundreds of calls from doctors and patients wanting more information on this safe, effective, and inexpensive treatment which reverses and curses Multiple Sclerosis.
Dr. F.R. Klenner?s medical paper was published in the June and July 2000 edition of the TLfDP. Dr. H.T.R. Mount?s medical paper on the successful treatment of MS with vitamin B1 and liver extract was also published in the Feb/March 2000 issue of the TLfDP. It is interesting to note these two MDs were treating MS in the 1940s and ?50s with the same two essential ingredients ? injectable B1 and liver extract, yet they were unaware of each other. Dr. Klenner in Reidsville, North Carolina and Dr. Mount in Ottawa, Ontario. Dr. Mount felt paralysis was a contraindication to his type of therapy, whereas Dr. Klenner was treating MS patients with paralysis intensively and successfully with vitamins A, C, E and all of the B vitamins and other metabolites in addition to the vitamin B1 and liver extract injections.
As many readers know, we had serious problems from 1998 on as the FDA Pharmaceutical monolith attempted to stop this treatment by refusing to allow the release of vitamin injectables and liver extract from the large labs producing them, which were under FDA control. It was a desperate situation for us and we survived by importing them from Mexico where these injectables are available without a prescription. Compounding pharmacies in the US began to produce the vitamin B1 injectables in 2000. They were able to do this because compounding pharmacies are under State control. The FDA went to court in January 2001 in New York and attempted to gain control of compounding pharmacies and they were denied that right. These pharmacies then began to produce Liver Extract also and we were assured of a reliable source of supply.
There are currently two pharmacies producing B1, 200mg per ml. and liver extract with two more coming on line, one in Canada and one in the US. With increasing numbers of patients becoming aware of this treatment, the demand will increase.
Dr. Klenner believed MS to have a viral cause. With a degree in Biochemistry he was able to understand what was happening in MS. The virus damaged the cells of the central nervous system rendering them incapable of maintaining homeostasis or normal metabolism by retaining adequate B1 within the cells, resulting in a deterioration of the myelin sheath surrounding the nerve and eventual paralysis. By raising the level of B1 in the body with a daily injection, a level could be maintained allowing normal metabolism to be continued, resulting in myelin sheath regeneration and recovery. In reality, MS is a deficiency disease caused by a viral inflammation of the central nervous system which can be reversed with adequate B1 and liver extract injections. Recovery can be enhanced with the addition of vitamins A, C, E, and B-complex and other metabolites in addition to a healthful diet and lifestyle.
I have followed this protocol for over 25 years. Following two severe attacks of MS in 1973 I could walk only a short distance and was forced to discontinue working ? my doctors said I would be in a wheelchair soon. After beginning treatment with Dr. Klenner I was able to return to work within 6 months ? but it was two years before I became symptom-free. I have enjoyed excellent health since.
The protocol of Dr. Klenner?s I have followed consists of: (1) a daily intramuscular injection of vitamin B1 of 300 to 400 mg. The correct dosage can be determined by the level of fatigue the patient experiences. Some patients require 300 to 400 mg daily to experience relief of fatigue symptoms. The B1 is available in a strength of 200mg per ml. So a 200mg injection would be 1cc. Twice weekly 1cc of liver extract is added to the B1 injection so extra injections aren?t needed. The B1 injectable comes in a 30cc bottle and lasts for two to four weeks. The liver extract comes in a 10cc vial and lasts 5 weeks. The syringe is a 25 gauge by five-eights inch 3cc syringe.

Note: B1 is not well absorbed in oral form ? the daily injection is required for life for successful treatment and recovery.

Oral Vitamin Regimen

5 grams daily in divided doses of Calcium Ascorbate (buffered Vitamin C) which is available in 500 tablets. This boosts the immune system and eliminates or shortens recovery time from colds and flu.

Vitamin E 400 to 1000 IU daily

B-100 tablet. This tablet contains 100mg of all the B vitamins.

B12 ? One tablet (sublingual ? dissolved under the tongue) daily. One to 2mg strength.

Niacin. Once or twice weekly, 100 to 300mg before breakfast. This is a vasodilator and opens the blood vessels allowing the nutrients to rebuild the myelin sheath damaged by MS. This will produce a flush and reddening of the skin for about 30 minutes, which most patients say they enjoy. It is advisable to lie down and cover up for the period of the flush.

Diet

A high protein diet is required to rebuild the myelin sheath. Examples: Breakfast ? 1 or 2 eggs poached, with fruit and cereal. Lunch ? fish and vegetables (steamed) and fruit. Supper ? chicken or beef with vegetables and fruit. Soy, cheese and dairy products are a good source of protein if well tolerated.
One 500mg digestive enzyme tablet taken with each meal can often improve digestion and absorption.
Injectables are presently available at two compounding pharmacies with a prescription and are shipped to Canada and all parts of the US: The Compounder Pharmacy, Aurora, Illinois 630-859-0333 or 800-679-4667. Prices at last quote: Thiamine 200mg per ml. 30cc $19.00; Liver Extract 10cc $30.00.

Dale Humpherys 250-655-6616 (in Canada)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above letter to the editor appeared in the May 2003 issue of the Townsend Letter for Doctors and Patients. Dale Humpherys has given us verbal authorization by telephone to post this article in its entirety on our website.
Larry Frieders, Compounding Pharmacist, October 2, 2003
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I'm trying to follow you Katie & Jimmy......

Postby Sandrae » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:42 am

Hi I'm an air head on the pc but i found your site Jimmy and Katie since you r both doing the Protocol "thats great......I'll have someone to talk to on it.

Forget who lives in Canada...me too I'm in Ontario.
Have had ms for 20yrs.
My dr loves it that I've had good results from the protocol. So I'm willing to be on this the rest of my life.
So glad I found Dale H.

Sandrae

katie45 wrote:Jimmy...What form of B1 are you taking? Oral? I'm taking benfotiamine at present and starting im injections today when it arrives. Yes klenner's info is dated but if one looks for the logic it's there I believe(albeit simplistic) I don't think they expected any "layman reasearch" in those days(pre-internet) I too have regained some function and hope it continues improving...I still am dealing with severe lactic acidosis (very painful) I think I need to up my dosage. (about 410 mg/day right now) kathy
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:43 pm

hi sandrae, yep it's a pretty good deal when you can get it to work. helped me tons, even though it is missing some rather large pieces of the puzzle!
i only ever did a modified version (oral intake only, with no liver extract) but it was so worth it anyway.
what kind of results have you had so far, s?
JL
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Postby LR1234 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:14 pm

Jimmy what is your supplement regime exactly?

I might add B1 and/or B3 to my current regime.......

I did look at Klenner a while ago but wouldn't have been able to get hold of the injectable versions of liver extract and B1 so didn't go ahead with it.


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