Reversing Endothelial Dysfunction

Tell us what you are using to treat your MS-- and how you are doing.

Postby gainsbourg » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:51 am

Maybe its because hypoxia (lack of oxygen) induces oxidative stress in those who's genes are not equipped to handle altitude so well. The cells of the CNS are very sensitive to poor metabolism - which seems to be key in making them vulnerable to oxidative stress.

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Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:04 am

DIM wrote:Cheer I was born in high altitude areas as my wife did, in her province they have too many cases with MS, Parkinson, Altzheimer and other similar diseases although in my area we have very few - almost zero - of the above diseases but we have many cases with diabetes type II.
I don't know what contributes to this but it is strange!


I would wonder if people in your area have lived there for many generations, thereby inheriting- like the sherpas- a genetic change in the endothelial structure which allows them to synthesize more nitric oxide? Thus the lower MS rates....maybe diet and exericise contribute to the diabetes rates. Perhaps your wife's province is more recently settled with newcomers or more "industrialized?"

Gains- you're right, it could be the lack of oxygen which contributes to the NO imbalance. What's really important in all of this is that the vasculature is changed, and people who move to higher altitudes have constriction in their arteries and less available nitric oxide. Vasodilators could really help these folks.

again, I believe that this is only one factor in a list of MANY that could contribute to the breakdown of the cerebral endothelium and the BBB. Each person needs to solve the puzzle for their own case. Smoking cigarettes or breathing diesel fumes in a sea level town can be just as bad....
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dio or constriction

Postby Cojack » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:13 pm

Yesterday's MS headline study re: MS and Migraines came out citing MS'rs as having sig more than pop at large...one of my personal daily battles now appears to be transient head pressure...and what seems to help me is coffee...a constrictor...

question: any idea what might naturally work as a constrictor/ or like migraine med that i understand keeps the veins from constricting & dilating

contrarily,

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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:24 pm

sounds like a caffeine withdrawal headache? or the mag in it is helping you in the short term maybe. or you're dehydrated and even the transient liquid in the coffee helps for a time. any number of things.
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Re: dio or constriction

Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:39 pm

Cojack wrote:Yesterday's MS headline study re: MS and Migraines came out citing MS'rs as having sig more than pop at large...one of my personal daily battles now appears to be transient head pressure...and what seems to help me is coffee...a constrictor...

question: any idea what might naturally work as a constrictor/ or like migraine med that i understand keeps the veins from constricting & dilating

contrarily,

jack
:roll:


You're right, Jeck... caffeine is a vasoconstrictor, so it forces the heart to work harder to pump blood, but when you drink coffee, actually more blood reaches the brain, rather than less. I know, it seems contrary.

Caffeine is used in painkillers is because it gets stuff into your system more quickly...since your heart is pumping more quickly. But caffeine doesn't do anything for pain, it can exacerbate it. Some folks get caffeine withdrawal headaches, it they're addicted to it. It's the change in vessel pressure which makes the pain.

In migraine, it's the spasm of blood vessels in the brain which first causes constriction (and aura in some) and then dilation, which causes the pain.

So the cure to migraine or headache is not vasoconstriction or dilation...but regulation. You want the vessels to stop spasming, and causing this constriction/dilation scenario.

It's all about balance, and stopping vessel spasms. Caffeine may not be the best thing for you, Jack. Maybe try a green or peppermint tea? JL's right about mag. I was a migrainer, and haven't had one since I started following Jeff's program for endothelial health.
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Postby Waterbear » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:42 pm

jimmylegs wrote:sounds like a caffeine withdrawal headache?


I had never heard of this before but it is quite interesting,my girlfriend cut her caffeine intake recently and now has headaches quite often;moreover they seem to go away when she has coffee.

Found this on google:

CAFFEINE WITHDRAWAL RECOGNIZED AS A DISORDER

If you missed your morning coffee and now you have a headache and difficulty concentrating, you might be able to blame it on caffeine withdrawal. In general, the more caffeine consumed, the more severe withdrawal symptoms are likely to be, but as little as one standard cup of coffee a day can produce caffeine addiction, according to a Johns Hopkins study that reviewed over 170 years of caffeine withdrawal research.

Results of the Johns Hopkins study should result in caffeine withdrawal being included in the next edition of the DSM or the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, considered the bible of mental disorders, and the diagnosis should be updated in the World Health Organization's ICD, or The International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems.

"Caffeine is the world's most commonly used stimulant, and it's cheap and readily available so people can maintain their use of caffeine quite easily," says Roland Griffiths, Ph.D., professor of psychiatry and neuroscience at Johns Hopkins. "The latest research demonstrates, however, that when people don't get their usual dose they can suffer a range of withdrawal symptoms, including headache, fatigue, difficulty concentrating. They may even feel like they have the flu with nausea and muscle pain."

Griffiths, and colleague Laura Juliano, Ph.D., of American University published these findings in the October 2004 issue of the journal Psychopharmacology, available online now.

"Despite more than a century and a half of investigation into caffeine withdrawal, doctors and other health professionals have had no scientifically based framework for diagnosing the syndrome," says Griffiths. "Our goal was to critically review the literature regarding caffeine withdrawal to validate the symptoms and signs of illness associated with it, and to determine how often withdrawal produced clinically significant distress."

In their review, the researchers identified 57 experimental studies and nine survey studies on caffeine withdrawal, and examined each to assess the validity of the reported findings.

The researchers identified five clusters of common withdrawal symptoms: headache; fatigue or drowsiness; dysphoric mood including depression and irritability; difficulty concentrating; and flu-like symptoms of nausea, vomiting and muscle pain or stiffness. In experimental studies, 50 percent of people experienced headache and 13 percent had clinically significant distress or functional impairment -- for example, severe headache and other symptoms incompatible with working. Typically, onset of symptoms occurred 12 to 24 hours after stopping caffeine, with peak intensity between one and two days, and for a duration of two to nine days. In general, the incidence or severity of symptoms increased with increases in daily dose, but abstinence from doses as low as 100 milligrams per day, or about one small cup of coffee, also produced symptoms.

The research also showed that avoidance of caffeine withdrawal symptoms motivates regular use of caffeine. For example, the satisfying feelings and perceived benefits that many coffee users experience from their morning coffee appear to be a simple reversal of the negative effects of caffeine withdrawal after overnight abstinence.

But there is good news for those wishing to quit caffeine: A simple, stepwise approach can often eliminate the need for a "fix" without suffering the most severe withdrawal symptoms.

"We teach a systematic method of gradually reducing caffeine consumption over time by substituting decaffeinated or non-caffeinated products. Using such a method allows people to reduce or eliminate withdrawal symptoms," says Griffiths.

According to the report, caffeine is the most widely used behaviorally active drug in the world. In North America, 80 percent to 90 percent of adults report regular use of caffeine. Average daily intake of caffeine among caffeine consumers in the United States is about 280 milligrams, or about one to two mugs of coffee or three to five bottles of soft drink, with higher intakes estimated in some European countries. In the United States, coffee and soft drinks are the most common sources of caffeine, with almost half of caffeine consumers ingesting caffeine from multiple sources, including tea.

The study was funded in part by the National Institute on Drug Abuse.

On the Web:

http://neuroscience.jhu.edu/peopledetail.asp?ID=48
http://www.springeronline.com/sgw/cda/f ... -0,00.html
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Postby jimmylegs » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:48 pm

In migraine, it's the spasm of blood vessels in the brain ... You want the vessels to stop spasming, and causing this constriction/dilation scenario.
It's all about balance, and stopping vessel spasms... JL's right about mag. I was a migrainer, and haven't had one since I started following Jeff's program for endothelial health.


that's interesting cheer i hadn't investigated migraine enough to know it was a spasm. obviously a mag cure lol! i think you may have mentioned this before but i haven't thought of it in a while. glad you're fixed :)
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Postby Cojack » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:39 pm

thanks everyone....but i did stop all caffeine from june til november...didn't help a bit....oh...cheer....if i may refer to you in the familiar? :) apparently caffeines a bronchial dilator. whatever that's worth...i think you're on to something with your theory...didn't you mention in one of your posts something working as a vein relaxer???
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:42 pm

jimmylegs wrote: glad you're fixed :)


Ha...not fixed, but maybe less broken :)

I just dropped my son off at his choir reh. and one of his friends had a monster migraine with aura. He was in alot of pain. I sat with the kid and did some accupressure on his hands and the base of his skull and talked to his mom about migraine triggers. He's been under alot of stress and hasn't been sleeping well. I mentioned mag. supplements and spasms.
Life's funny. I hadn't thought about migraines in a long time- until today.
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Postby cheerleader » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:55 pm

Cojack wrote:.oh...cheer....if i may refer to you in the familiar? :) apparently caffeines a bronchial dilator. whatever that's worth...i think you're on to something with your theory...didn't you mention in one of your posts something working as a vein relaxer???


Call me cheer, whatever...we're buddies now, Jack. Yeah, vasodilators open up the blood vessels so the heart doesn't work as hard, and blood flows better. Lots of stuff can do that...niacin flushes, high blood pressure medicines and nitroglycerin- but I like the natural vasodilation stuff like onions and garlic which have adenosine, omega 3 oil in fish, ginko, and super antioxidants like quercetin and EGCG. All of these guys naturally relax the blood vessels by affecting nitric oxide.
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Postby CureOrBust » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:36 am

I haven't seen it mentioned here, but recently I have been reading a lot on Vitamin K2 (in relation to Vit D3).

From memory, its attributed to:
1. Improve Vascular Health
2. Improve bone density / calcium absorption.
3. Reduce the chance of developing Gout (ie crystals in joints) during times of high Uric Acid (without reducing uric acid).

I haven't read anything glowing in regards to MS in particular, but I have yet to read anything negative about it. The above positives all sound like things I would like to benefit from, so will attempt to get my hands on it.
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Postby Sharon » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:58 am

Cheer, the research shows that if you spend your first 15 years of life in a Northern zone, your risk of MS is higher. If you move from the North to the South after 15 years of age, your risk is the same as that of someone who has been in the North their entire life. Now if you move from the South to the North (after age 15) your risk is lower. It has something to do with spending your first 15 years of life in the North. Interesting isn't it?

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Postby jimmylegs » Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:13 am

that should sort him out cheer!
He's been under alot of stress and hasn't been sleeping well. I mentioned mag. supplements and spasms.
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:54 am

CureOrBust wrote:I haven't seen it mentioned here, but recently I have been reading a lot on Vitamin K2 (in relation to Vit D3).
From memory, its attributed to:
1. Improve Vascular Health
2. Improve bone density / calcium absorption.
3. Reduce the chance of developing Gout (ie crystals in joints) during times of high Uric Acid (without reducing uric acid).


Thanks, Cure. K2 is available in egg yolks, liver and certain cheeses as well as Japanese natto...Jeff takes a nattokinase supplement, but all the vit. K2 is removed! I'll look for a brand w/ the K2 still in there.
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Postby cheerleader » Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:59 am

Sharon wrote:Cheer, the research shows that if you spend your first 15 years of life in a Northern zone, your risk of MS is higher. If you move from the North to the South after 15 years of age, your risk is the same as that of someone who has been in the North their entire life. Now if you move from the South to the North (after age 15) your risk is lower. It has something to do with spending your first 15 years of life in the North. Interesting isn't it?

Sharon


Yeah, in this instance it must be about sunshine and available vit. D for the maturing, pubertal body. You know, my Jeff lived in sunny CA all his life BUT spent years 18-23 (he was still growing until his 20s) in upper New York. This is when he got hit with mono/EBV... by the time we got back to CA, I think the damage was done. But he sure gets lots of vit. D now!
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