This Is MS Multiple Sclerosis Community: Knowledge & Support

[cheerleader]

Some things to consider during the New Year-

In the endothelial paper, I mention supplements and lifestyle choices which constrict or relax blood vessels. Wanted to get into more activities which will promote vasodilation- the opening of blood vessels and unhampered flow of blood. These are conscious choices anyone can make on a daily basis, and they're free!

Activities which create vasodilation-
relaxed and normal breathing, moderate exercise like walking, yoga, tai chi or good aerobic exercise which promotes deep breathing, Chinese Qigong, listening to beautiful music, being in nature, laughing, meditation, any activity which brings joy and mindfulness, feeling in control and competent.

Activities which create vasoconstriction-
breath holding, scuba diving, straining caused by lifting heavy objects or weights, high altitude activities, smoking, alcohol, stress and anger, fight or flight adrenaline response, hollering, playing wind or brass instruments, prolonged coughing or difficulty breathing due to allergy or colds.

I truly believe that the temperature sensitivity, hypercoagulation and clotting issues that many MSers exhibit is due to problems with their vasodilation/vasoconstriction systems. Anything people with MS can do during their daily routines to help keep blood moving will help. More on the way in 2009!

AC

[cheerleader]

(Edited because I was wrong, wrong, wrong....
This is a better way to posit my thoughts. Sorry!)

64 million dollar question (thanks, Marie):
Why would steroids, campath, revimmune help alleviate MS, if MS it is a vascular disease?

I believe that the reason campath, cytoxan, and steroids work on slowing the progression of MS is because of the effect they have on inflammation, antibodies, platelets and coagulation. However, since they are given only temporarily, their benefit is short lived. Once you stop taking them, the vascular issues return, venous reflux returns and MS progresses.

AC

[jimmylegs]

probably the same deal for statins and niacin, whaddaya reckon

[DIM]

probably the same deal for statins and niacin, whaddaya reckon

Jimmy statins are by far better than corticosteroids not to mention niacin but it explains why some substances work so well on MSers.

For example and from what I have found LDN works for multiple reasons, it's a very good vasolidator, increases angiogenesis, boosts immune system (balances T-cell ratio) and remarkably increases endorphins that control many functions of the body.

[cheerleader]

probably the same deal for statins and niacin, whaddaya reckon

bingo...JL and Dim- Also why lifestyle, meditation, exercise, Swank diet and other alternative "treatments" help those with MS, all are vasodilators.

Many paths to the same blood issues. Some people are drawn to the more "sciency" way- lab coats and expensive drugs. Some are more holistic. I also think this is why we see so many arguments over who's way is better...because there are so many vasodilators ( LDN, campath, or garlic) But the bottom line is, if it keeps blood moving, it's good. Of course, I'm an organic-eatin' Cali girl, which explains my natural predilections.
AC

[jimmylegs]

AND gingko hehehe

[jimmylegs]

AND water... it's a transcript so the sentence structure is not always clear, but interesting.

http://www.naturalscience.org/Special_R ... _ebook.pdf
Your Body’s many Cries for Water
Dehydration is the underlying cause of many chronic “diseases.” Proper intake of water, salt and minerals can prevent these illnesses and even reverse the damage already done. So-called “modern” medicine still blames viruses or genetics for most of these degenerative conditions, and the pharmaceutical industry would lose billions in profits if people relied on the natural healing properties of water rather than expensive and toxic drugs. Why the body needs water, the reasons why lack of water causes the body to become stressed and diseased, as well as very simple methods to ensure your own vibrant health, are all explained in detail.

now i have to go check on that humidity thread...

[jimmylegs]

nope, doesn't tie in - zero humidity is supposed to be good

[NHE]

64 million dollar question (thanks, Marie):
Why do steroids and chemo work on alleviating MS

I don't mean to start an "autoimmune vs. not autoimmune" argument. However, corticosteroids, such as prednisone, induce white blood cells to enter into apoptosis which is programmed cell death. By lowering the total number of white blood cells, the corticosteroids are also lowering the number of cells targetting myelin related antigens (e.g., the MRTCs which were the focus of the Tovaxin study).

NHE

[cheerleader]

64 million dollar question (thanks, Marie):
Why do steroids and chemo work on alleviating MS

I don't mean to start an "autoimmune vs. not autoimmune" argument. However, corticosteroids, such as prednisone, induce white blood cells to enter into apoptosis which is programmed cell death. By lowering the total number of white blood cells, the corticosteroids are also lowering the number of cells targetting myelin related antigens (e.g., the MRTCs which were the focus of the Tovaxin study).
NHE

Absolutely right, NHE. My question was proposed hypothetically....what if MS is vascular? Why would steroids/chemo help? No one is debating their effect on the immune system. I was merely commenting that they also affect the vasculature and create vasodilation, and are used by haematoloists to relieve clotting disorders. This might be another reason why they help during MS exacerbations. Only my opinion...
AC

[CureOrBust]

My question was proposed hypothetically....what if MS is vascular? Why would steroids/chemo help? No one is debating their effect on the immune system. I was merely commenting that they also affect the vasculature and create vasodilation, and are used by haematoloists to relieve clotting disorders. This might be another reason why they help during MS exacerbations. Only my opinion...

My opinion, no matter what the actual cause of something, if a drug attacks it from a different angle, it can appear to be "effective".

For example, if you have an anaesthesia because the dr made a slice in your skin, the pain killer wont close the wound, but you wont feel it. I see steroids in that way. They don't solve what the problem is, but stop the signs (ie overactive immune system / inflammation in MS). And they are effective at that.

No one has shown that the vasodilation or blood thinning tablets have helped MS, yet many immune modulators HAVE been proven to help MS.

[cheerleader]

No one has shown that the vasodilation or blood thinning tablets have helped MS, yet many immune modulators HAVE been proven to help MS.

It was only 25 years ago Hughes Syndrome was found to be a differential diagnosis to MS, and APS testing began. Perhaps there is another vascular subgroup of MSers w/out the lupus antibodies. We still do not know the cause or cure for MS. Immune modulating therapy slows progression for a subgroup of MS patients, but not all. And it doesn't cure MS.

I'm not going to get all Finn on here, but I'm just not convinced doctors understand this disease. I look to Schelling and Zamboni for the next direction. They are breaking away from Charcot's path. And I do have circumstantial (and MRI) evidence that the vasodilation program Jeff is on is helping him.
AC

[gibbledygook]

I'm being referred to a doctor for Doppler imaging of the venous blockages! V excited.

My (over indulgent?!) experience of the vasodilators and blood thinners such as ginkgo and salvia leads me to conclude that they are helpful but not in too great a quantity. This isn't surprising as they will dilate the distended parts of the vein as well as the stenoses. And I hurt bad after taking superoxide dismutase with the salvia which I think provoked excessive vasodilation. Getting the balance right is important. I believe that during relapse the vessel walls, in parts, become very distended/dilated anyway and so these herbs should be avoided until the flare up is over.

I reckon that we have a physical/tangible problem at the stenoses' sites and propose that there is calcification building up in the smooth muscle tissue. This is because of the coincidence of osteoporosis and MS. In order to miminize calcification of the veins we should perhaps consider more closely Vitamin K. This is interesting as it has effects on ccoagulation etc and is linked in with the vitamin d deficiency story.

[CureOrBust]

I'm being referred to a doctor for Doppler imaging of the venous blockages! V excited.

Do you have a date yet?

[jimmylegs]

it's not like the prom, c